Opinions on this possible 1851/81 1C

Forget the vote. Post #12 and #16 explain what you have very nicely.

 

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No need to apologize! We all disagree from time to time. Just admitting that I'm right all the time is good enough for me.

Chris

 

I would send it in to PCGS to see what it grades.

 

IMO, waste of money, the coin is VF details, cleaned and damaged. Many would even say XF.

 

Same here. Not a good choice to have graded. It's a fun coin as is.

 

Did the mint use a gang punch in 1851 to add the date to the die? I guess they did for this to happen. Anyone know when they quit adding one number at a time?

@Insider You know some cool folks. Do you know anyone that might have images of actual date punches or the holders they used to gang punch dates? I have just about gave up looking.

 

Roger Burdette would probably know.

Chris

 

Intereting question that SHOULD BE common knowledge I should think but apparently not if you cannot find it. Burdette, Lange, Margolis, Julian, Bressett are all alive and there are some old books about the Mint that may contain info. Ask them if you see them at shows.

Using digital photography, it should be very easy for an advanced collector of Large cents or numismatic researcher to compare the EXACT orientation of the level (I'm beginning to write like SD ) of the top and bottom of the digits to determine that either the first two or three digits line up perfectly while either the last one or two are slightly off register proving they were added to the gang punched numbers already into the die.

So, AFAIK, and this ONLY until we all find out for sure:

I'll bet they never had a punch for the entire date. Furthermore, I'll bet the number of digits in the gang punch may have changed over the decades due to the way die making changed. I believe the date digits for our coins were first put into the die one at a time. Next they moved to a two digit punch but even a three digit punch would make sense as the punch would be good for ten years. The 1851/81 indicates the "18" was gang punched into the die. Since there is an 1844/81 variety we may be able to assume that during this time period a "18" punch was being used.

Now, forget what I have written and let's all see if we can find the actual truth!

EDIT: I could not find the answer in From Mine to Mint just now.

 

Same here. I love the searchable CD of the book, it's really cool. There was a thread over on NGC some time back about this and the use of jigs that helped index each digit but Rodger did not have much information. I brought it up in a thread on CU but again, little is known. The mint has never been helpful about much of the minting process. I'll chat with a few folks at Fun in January.

 

Very interesting.........great hobby!

 

I forgot, to add: If I remember correctly, in the 1970's the "197" was on the "working hubs" and only the final digit needed to be added to those before the "working dies" were made from it.