http://www.ebay.com/itm/1867-S-PCGS...482468?hash=item25c071f024:g:PJUAAOSw-FZXj2SB Can we all agree that this coin is cleaned and unattractive? It has hairlines visible even from these pictures. Not to mention the unnatural look of the coin.
IMO, No & Yes. There is a difference between hairlines (and rug burn ) from cleaning and general circulation. If that were not the case, the TPGS's would call EVERYTHING CLEANED just as all of us tend to do. The TPGS provide an "educated" opinion . We each need to make our own judgement about what we see and what we tolerate. What we don't see is often important too but obviously it will have no influence on our opinion. I have no other comments on this so argue away, I'm very interested in you opinions...
Frankly, I can't tell if a coin has been cleaned from a picture. My tendency would be to go with the PCGS graders, who had it in hand. At the same time, it's not particularly attractive, so I'd let the seller keep it
The way it has "spotty" dirty spots, suggests some cleaning, but the marks on it don't appear to be anything much more than circulation.
Not clear cut cleaning, most likely, but not for sure. However, remember it has always been OVERCLEANING, not cleaning, that should body bag a coin. Its a VF, yet still has luster in protected areas. Not really an example of overcleaning, and kind of what you expect for a VF coin 150 year old. I do not think its a trajedy this was straight graded. Remember, not all uncleaned coins are dark.
Harsh lighting can also make a coin look cleaned. It probably looks a lot better under different lighting.
I don't like it, and certainly wouldn't recommend the coin, but if PCGS (or any TPG) wishes to give their blessing, or if collectors as a whole are willing to see it as acceptable, that's on them. I don't make the rules.
We spend a lot of time looking at pictures and trying to judge grades, cleaning etc. Generally, they are good exercises that hopefully improve our skills. We know that TPGs can have bad days and miss the mark. But we are doing our thing on pictures -- and having the coin in hand is a definitely better vantage point.
"Liking" the coin is a whole other thing sir. I never said I liked it or wished to own it. I just commented on the applicability of it being slabbed.
Of course, and I certainly didn't wish to imply otherwise. What I did wish to do was play up upon what Insider said regarding how people should make their own decisions above and beyond. Personally, I couldn't care less if it has technically been cleaned/over-cleaned or not; the end result is what should matter most, and no matter the cause, the coin isn't one that's "survived" to the level I find acceptable. It may not read this way, but I do believe we're on the same page.
Judging only from the photos, I would be lenient with the obverse, as it looks natural enough to me, although potentially suspect right of Miss Liberty, but the reverse definitely looks cleaned in a few isolated areas.
I don't mind the look of this coin. Maybe at the bottom end of what is acceptable for a straight grade, but as far as cleaning goes it's a matter of degree. The cleaning bothers me less than prominent rim bumps and other damage that often end up in straight graded slabs.
I too suspect how that coin was photographed with the lighting and that color background is making it look worse than it is
Maybe it's just the photography, but what the devil happened to the banner above the eagle on the reverse? Half of it appears to be gone.
The coin has almost certainly been cleaned. I'm sure there are some hairlines from circulation as well, but there are obvious signs of cleaning. However, remember that as long as the coin is "market acceptable," it will still be graded. This coin is well within the "market acceptable" umbrella - I have seen much worse in slabs. I wouldn't buy that coin, but many others would.
Of course it has been cleaned. The extent of cleaning is debatable. The TPG graded it straight because they used market grading. They believed it would be acceptable in the market with this grade but I would opt for a better example
