Counterfeit Colonial Copper - eBay Seller - No Consequences

I bought a raw 1694 Elephant Token from an apparently reputable seller on eBay in Ireland for a fair price - 721 Euros and change. I was excited to finally have one for my Colonial set, I posted pictures here and immediately dispatched it to NGC via standard submission upon receipt. I did think it might have been cleaned. Long story short, it was fake. What has really been a downer is, not only am I out the money (no refunds after 30 days per eBay policy - turnaround at NGC was 8 weeks - it took them 4 weeks before they processed it / opened the package) but that the seller is now selling what is very likely another expensive fake as "genuine" right now. My courteous emails to eBay customer service are so far met with kind of a boilerplate response to work it out with the seller and that it was outside of the 30 day window. They did initially indicate that I might consider filing a complaint with the proper authorities, but I'm not sure who they are, and my requests for elaboration and the information on the seller (I only know his first name, "Stirling") to provide the authorities, have been met with radio silence. I didn't retain the packaging I received the token in. I am also unable to file my honest feedback with regard to my transaction as eBay has blocked that on this transaction for some reason - which is just an invitation for bad sellers to continue selling fakes IMO.

While I'm not going to stop buying on eBay, as I've mostly had great luck there using my normal caution for the last 20 years, I am really disappointed in how this one turned out - I've got a fake, the seller has my money and the seller is continuing to sell on eBay, apparently without any consequences.

In any case - given my experience with this seller, as described, I'd steer clear of this:
1951 South Africa Penny coin - 2000 minted only - PROOF - EXT EXT RARE - #PA47
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$1,207.09
irishcoinsandstuff2012 (1,382) 99.9%
or Best Offer
+$4.17 shipping

Here's a picture of the counterfeit Elephant Token I purchased from this seller. (note I also paid NGC extra for the enhanced photos, lol).

 

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Sorry for your misfortune. It is disappointing that folks out there are content to be like that. Truly a different population.

 

That's a shame, I would try to contact the seller and see if they can work something out with you. If they are a reputable dealer they should at least give you a partial refund.

 

I did, and I don't think they are a reputable dealer - I also did a little online sleuthing with my limited information and was unable to find a bricks & mortar store, a web store or any further information on the seller. The seller told me that he had "experts" who verified it - so NGC was in the wrong apparently, lol. He stopped responding to me, though I was nothing but polite, pretty quickly. I kind of wonder if someone took over the account and is using it to sell fakes now.

 

Damn Guy that's a shame! Most reputable sellers on ebay will go beyond the 30 days to guarantee authenticity of their coins, at least that's happened to me. Sorry to hear you met a ripoff!

 

I'm sorry about the misfortune, but I find it funny that they still photographed it for you. I guess they didn't want to lose out on that 5 bucks.

 

So sorry! Yes some out there do anything. Unfortunately I have a feeling it may get worse. Hope you can find out more on them.

 

I’d contact the seller and let him know and try to work it out. I’d also call NGC and try to find out why they labeled it fake. It would assist you in the future if you knew why it’s fake.

 

Have you tried a credit card chargeback (if you used a card to pay)? That tends to have at least a 180 day timeframe and will get the seller's attention. You can document in your case to your card company that the item is not genuine (per NGC) and that the seller is not responding.

 

Sorry this happened. I think purchase from a seller overseas would make things more difficult. Doesn't say much fpr Ebay not allowing you to post feedback as you see the situation. That is very bothersome to me for something as serious as selling a counterfeit coin, really bothersome.

 

I did, I used a Visa and I did fill out a dispute form but it was rejected, and I was discouraged, I should probably try that again. I think I used symbols & / that were not allowed in the form, in retrospect. Going forward I think I'll only use Paypal for transactions that I'm concerned about - and I'm going to be more cautious, of course, going forward as well.

 

That really sucks, I was thinking maybe the seller didn't realize it was a fake. But given the response you got that his "expert" verified it and NGC is wrong, I'd say either they knew it was a fake, or refuse to consider that they were also duped. If they are so certain it's not a fake, why not allow you to return it, even if you pay the shipping. Then they could just resell it.

Seems like you've hit a bunch of dead ends, I'd try the credit card company again. May have to get on the phone with them and explain the situation so they can better direct you on what to do.

Good luck!

 

Many experts over the years have gotten Elephant Tokens wrong, including TPGs.

 

If that's the case, perhaps the OP should try to get a second opinion?

 

I’m thinking the OP should send the coin to another TPG, one that’s my more knowledgeable than NGC for these types of coins.

 

Don't be silly. The coin is a crude "naked eye" fake! Furthermore, your post "smacks me" as libel and you may wish to delete this
part: "...one that’s my more knowledgeable than NGC for these types of coins."

 

@Insider I am dubious but intrigued. I’ve got another group to send off to ICG soon, perhaps I’ll include this, just to give Skip and his team some fun…. Does anyone else think this is a good idea based on the photos above?

 

lol, that’s what I feared, thank you for your input. For ignorant folk like me, what makes it obvious?

 

Really sorry to hear this.

I have to ask: did you consult online references for the Elephant Token, or better yet, the Bowers Encyclopedia of Colonial coins to check for variety and appearance?

And I have to agree with whoever said it, that is a "one look fake".

 

There hasn't been a first one by a TPG, yet.
Pay attention....