Does anyone have Etienne Bourgey Dec. 1909?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Curtisimo, Dec 15, 2023.

  1. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    I haven’t been able to find it online anywhere. I checked Heidelberg and rnumis.

    If anyone knows if it is online somewhere or has it and would be willing to check a lot for me I would be extremely grateful.
     
    paschka likes this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Kentucky

    Kentucky Well-Known Member

  4. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    I don't think it would be on Heidi, which specializes in firms from German-speaking countries (Germany, Austria, Switzerland).

    Okay, I won't keep you in suspense...

    You probably mean the first one below:

    (For some reason it doesn't show up in my search below with the other 143-173 Bourgey catalogs.)

    For general reference:

    INHA (part of the Bibliotheque nationale de France) has at least 30 Bourgey catalogs. You might have to repeat the search, but try this for INHA: https://bibliotheque-numerique.inha.fr/collection/default?search=bourgey&sort=_score&perpage=50&page=1&fulltext=1&bookmarks=1&&sort=-Date,_score&refine[Creator][]=Bourgey,+Étienne&page=1

    Gallica (also BnF, confusingly?) has the most comprehensive online set of Bourgey (about 140 in addition to INHA = 173 total, incl. about 6-8 from 1909):
    https://gallica.bnf.fr/services/engine/search/sru?operation=searchRetrieve&version=1.2&startRecord=0&maximumRecords=50&page=1&collapsing=true&exactSearch=true&query=(dc.creator adj "Bourgey Étienne" or dc.contributor adj "Bourgey Étienne") sortby dc.date/sort.ascending

    Last, sometimes it's also worth searching "Hôtel Drouot," the venue, since sometimes the library-archivist doesn't realize the "Expert" is who really matters, or just searching the title (which is how I found this one on Gallica).

    Please share if you find something good inside!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2023
    GinoLR, Broucheion and Curtisimo like this.
  5. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    Sweet! Now I feel silly. Of course I should have checked Gallica! That’s where rnumis links to for the other catalogs.

    You’re awesome Curtis.
     
    Curtis likes this.
  6. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    1909 provenance confirmed!

    IMG_6726.jpeg

    I was a bit disappointed that there wasn’t at least some cursory information on H. M. in the catalog. Does anyone know if anything more is known about this collector?
     
    Curtis likes this.
  7. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    @Curtis ,

    You may be pleased to note that Dr. Moulding was having trouble locating it as well (I feel less silly now) and is very happy to now be able to add the link to rnumis.

    I’ll say it again… you’re awesome man. Thanks!
     
    Curtis likes this.
  8. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    What a great little Amisos chouette! I figure that's the right description, but people still sometimes call it eagle rather than owl (that's how mine, below, was described when I bought it in 2014).

    Beautiful eyes and feathers. Great turreted head of Tyche-Hera (?) too.

    Mine is worn and even in this condition these are charming little coins:
    Pontos Amisos AR Drachm-Siglos Hera-Eagle Ex-Agora Auction 14-007.jpg

    I don't know if anything is known about the collector "H. M." Too young for Harold Mattingly. Hyman Montagu would've just been named, I would think.

    Well, I'm sure someone knows (e.g., Alan Walker [principal at Nomos AG] or Hadrien Rambach or other catalogers with a special interest in old collections might know).

    Nothing more given in John Spring's Ancient Coin Auction Catalogues, 1880-1980. (He would've put the full name in brackets.) Nor the Poinsignon Library sale (Kuenker 357, 3102; they'd have given a short bio).

    I also had no success with my copy of Grierson's 1966 bibliography from the Lanz library, with TWO sets of hand-annotations for the ancient coin auctions and catalogs -- internally by Hermann Lanz (1910-1998), plus a separate annotated "booklet" by one of his sons (Ernst [1945-1989] or Hubert [1943-]), naming many other consignors.

    Another option: Find studies that cited the coins to see if they named the collector. There was a Syracuse Tetradrachm in Tudeer 1913, but only as "Bourgey 1909." Le Rider included a couple Philip AV Staters, but that was in 1977, so probably too late for names.

    Or -- French numismatic journals -- obituaries around that time?

    Oh, good, I'm glad you shared it with him!

    Yeah, definitely don't feel silly about that. I can't imagine many people know off the top of their head where to find turn-of-the-century French ancient coin catalogs reproduced online -- and which ones!

    I can confirm it was not easy to find:
    I have a big list of auctions like rNumis, including many Bourgey to the 1880s, but failed to find it in previous searches, despite specifically looking for it. (Must be something missing from the metadata; didn't show up searching Etienne Bourgey as author/expert, finally found it by searching the sub-title.)
     
    Curtisimo and Bing like this.
  9. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    Great example, Curtis!

    Definitely an owl. The owl and the inscription are a direct reference to Athens. The Athenians settled a number of people from Attica in the city during, or just before, the Peloponnesian War due to the strategic importance of the Black Sea trade. Presumably these settlers were originally from Pireaus (the port of Athens) and that is why the city ethnic temporarily becomes Peiraieus.

    I am also going with Hera for the obverse, which I think is pretty broadly agreed on as well. I bought it to represent Hera in my “12 Olympian Portraits” collection. :)

    Excellent information! I wonder if Dr. Walker would respond to an email inquiry. I may give it a try. It never hurts to ask.

    This will be fun research.
     
    Curtis likes this.
  10. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    If you do, please let me know how it goes. I've never contacted him directly, but he clearly has a long-standing interest in the history of collectors and auction catalogs.

    If you don't know it, he has a great article in the ANS' 150th anniversary special issue of American Journal of Numismatics (the only one that's actually on the theme of the issue, lol!):
    (But a fantastic volume overall: Several other well-known articles that I've found useful enough to read more than once. PDF vol. from Hathitrust: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/002236395; or individual articles on JSTOR: https://www.jstor.org/stable/i40142421.)
     
  11. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    I wonder if it could stand for Hermitage Museum?
     
  12. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    I would expect it to be M.H. (Musée Hermitage) instead of H.M. if they used initials for it. They did deaccession & sell a bunch of Greek coins, but as far as I know that was later, in Soviet period, during the lead-up to WWII (labeled only as "Museumbesitz" by Schlessinger).

    Apparently they want them back, though I'm having trouble finding the reference now. (Somewhere I think there's a note in one of the BCD sales describing a visit to St Petersburg in which the keeper of coins showed him the empty trays, awaiting their return... Or have I imagined this scene?)

    EDIT: Here it is!

    Jacquier 44 (BCD Library Duplicates, 13 Sep 2018), 2706
    A note from BCD: This is the catalogue for which Schlessinger will always be remembered, for better or for worse. When this writer visited Leningrad in September 1976, Mr. Dukov at the Hemitage explained to him that the empty spaces in the trays, with only the old tickets in them, were "still waiting for the stolen coins". One wonders if any of these spaces have since been filled...
    (I was searching for the word "Petersburg" not "Leningrad," which it was called until 1991! A highly memorable vignette. It's well worth reading all the "Notes from...")

     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2023
    Broucheion and Curtisimo like this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page