Guess The Grade - 1873 S $5 Gold Liberty Half Eagle

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by MIGuy, Sep 12, 2023.

  1. MIGuy

    MIGuy Well-Known Member

    The grade on this surprised me, so I'm very curious as to your thoughts and any input. It's not a common coin - from PCGS -
    David Akers (1975/88): The 1873-S is extremely rare in any condition. It is more rare than the 1868-S, 1869-S, 1871-S or 1872-S and is equal in rarity to the 1870-S. Almost all known specimens are well worn. All 1873-S Half Eagles have a Closed 3 in the date, and the mintmark is always weak.
    David Hall:
    I believe the 1873-S $5 Liberty may be unknown in mint state condition. I have never seen one and I can find no auction records of one ever offered as uncirculated.

    1873sobv.jpg 1873srev.jpg
     
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  3. dwhiz

    dwhiz Collector Supporter

    MS60
     
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  4. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Last edited: Sep 12, 2023
  5. Anthony Mazza

    Anthony Mazza Well-Known Member

  6. Mr.MonkeySwag96

    Mr.MonkeySwag96 Well-Known Member

    XF45-AU50
     
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  7. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    It looks cleaned from that picture. If they ignored that, it shouldn’t grade any high than EF-45. I’m thinking more like EF-40.

    There is a school of thinking that says the rarer it is, the loser the grading. I strongly disagree with that school.
     
  8. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity

    I agree with @ToughCOINS …I see evidence of wear on the eyebrow, nostril, chin and the hair curl in the center of the neck…also see the cleaning around the stars.
    …would not straight grade.

    If it did I think the wear is AU53…lovely gold $5…imo…Spark
     
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  9. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

  10. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

  11. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Guessing a punishment 40
     
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  12. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    That 3 is not closed as OP stated. Wouldn’t that count for something
     
  13. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    AU 55 Details Cleaned (ICG slab would specify the number for details unlike PCGS or NGC, who would just say AU)
     
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  14. Spark1951

    Spark1951 Accomplishment, not Activity

    Cheech…yes it is. Google: “1873 open 3 vs closed 3”. This will give you pictures showing the difference…Spark
     
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  15. MIGuy

    MIGuy Well-Known Member

    And here's the reveal! There is likely evidence of mounting on the rim where we can't see it, but nonetheless I think the grader was having a grumpy day - I'd call it XF Details, Cleaned, if not AU, given the strikes on these were pretty weak in general looking at other 1873-S half eagles - in any case, I picked up a rarity in gold that I like a lot for a very reasonable price, so I am pleased! Thank you all for your input. Edit - note that PCGS has a survival estimate of 100 for these (31,000 minted) and it's R8.0
    1873halfeagle.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
  16. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Stars are split, denticles are complete, and my opinion is that VF details is an irresponsible grade to have assigned to this coin.
     
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  17. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    It was net grading due the former jewelry use. Had it not been for the mount on the edge, which none us could see, EF sharpness would have been the call.
     
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  18. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    My point is that the Details grade defines the level of detail retained by a coin. Valuing the coin based on its inability to achieve a numerical grade is up to the buyer and seller, not to the grading service. That the coin has been mounted, scratched and cleaned has already been laid out on the label, so all of the information needed to attenuate the value is already presented.
     
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  19. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Not for many coin buyers. Some of them need a firm guide to tell them what the net grade and price should be. Usually a problem like moderate cleaning drops the net grade one notch. When you have cleaned and mounted, you could be looking at two notches. If you have hole, it’s even more. Some collectors think that a hole is the worst defect of all for a genuine coin.
     
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  20. MIGuy

    MIGuy Well-Known Member

    Like ToughCOINS, I thought that by noting the Details the TPG was taking them into account so that the "grade" would assess the sharpness / qualities of the coin aside from the noted Details problems. I do have some older ANACS holders with a "Net" grade, which I always thought was interesting. In any case - I like this coin a lot, whatever the slab says - and the slab verifies it's authenticity, which is important to me on rarer coins. My least favorite defect is tooling I think - a hole can be really bad though, depending on where it is and the size.
     
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  21. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    We can agree to disagree on this one. My observation is that, if the number / severity of problems taken into account still result in a numerical grade, net grading assigns value based on the value of a problem-free coin of that assigned net grade. When the problems are too numerous and / or serious to assign a numerical grade, a Details grade is assigned instead, and a value is not implied at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2023
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