I had this piece handed down to me in 1973 when my Grandfather passed. He was not a coin collector , but did have some pretty neat old US and German coins kicking around - and this oddball. Looked at it a zillion times - still not sure if it's a knockoff or not. Ancients are a weak department for me, but I have seen some pretty bad cast fakes. Maybe this is a decent fake? I'd be shocked if it were authentic, and you experts are about to let me know once and for all! It for sure is solid silver - weighs 13 grams - out of round 1 1/16th x 7/8. I included some edge shots thinking that would help. Either way it's a keeper since family is attached. I appreciate your time and giving of your valuable knowledge!
Look fine to me, it just has some condition issues, like the scratches on the reverse. It's possible this was once used as jewelry.
OMG! I am sort of floored that this beautiful thing is authentic! Grandpa Willy was sure no trinket collector, so I apologize to his spirit for having doubts. Should I wait for more replies before popping the champagne? Naw...! I like both your answers and hope no party poopers show up. Thank you both so much. Out of my never ebbing curiosity what does this fine piece value at on average? Not interested in selling you understand. Just want the knowledge.
Maybe $120 - $140. The scratches on the back hurt it, along with that toned spot, on the reverse. That's why I wonder if it was Jewelry at one time, if so, than the value drops, $85.
Thank you for the ballpark value reply Mat. It is possible, as you say, that this could have been mounted in perhaps a bezel at one time I suppose. Looking with a loupe I cannot detect any evidence of mounting or a removed pendant ring. Then again maybe I'm missing something that would be obvious to the expert eye. The dark toned spot may be caused by what? If you please!
There is all kinds of mounts, some could be done very well and hardly cause any damage and than there is sloppy ones that damage the coin. I may be wrong and it could be just an ugly toned spot, it's fairly common on coins. It does affect eye appeal & value can be hit/miss. Some dealers could treat it, good dealers will leave it alone.
Got it! Thank you for the followup Mat. These ancients sure are a complicated business to fully understand. BTW - you have an amazing collection. Back to my pennies!
I was wondering about the weight myself... I thought Alexander tetradrachms were struck on the Attic standard and should weigh about 17.xg, or maybe 16.xg if there's wear or damage. 13g is far too light, considering that the coin looks whole.
Putting the cork back in the champagne bottle now........oh well . Thanks for setting this straight guys.
You don't even need to weigh a fake this bad. The characteristic give-away is the smooth round bubble-like lumps on the edge and the cheek. Further around the edge is a split surface. Another big clue are the round holes in the beeds and the tips of the "W." Round raised lumps and perfectly round depressions in tight areas are places on a cast where bubbles prevent either the mold material from connecting to the model or the casting metal to fill the design of the mold.
Yeah- bubbles. Underweight. I get it. No argument from me, however on close inspection of some ancient silvers that are hailed as authentic I can also see some minute bubble pops. My question now is: can a stuck coin show ANY burst surface bubbs or pockets? Like just from the smelting process before the coin was stuck. How perfect and solid was the cooled metal surface that the planchets are made from. Would striking pressure open up air pockets? I hope this is not a silly question, and thank you for entertaining my curiosity. You folks are awesome!
Die rust, on an ancient die, sometimes caused pimples on authentic ancient coins, but only on the obverse or reverse, never on the edge, and the pimples are usually not perfectly round, and the pimples are often in clusters. Flan flaws sometimes caused large depressions on authentic ancient coins, but not usually perfectly round small craters. Some ancient flans were cast, and then struck, and sometimes the casting edges were not obliterated by the striking process, and therefore raised lines exist on the edges of some ancient coins. Often, when an ancient coin was struck, the edges of the flan became wrinkled. I'm not an expert at identifying fakes. 1 thing that I noticed, on your coin, was what looks like a hole, in Zeus's upper right arm. That looks suspicious to me. The single pimple on Hercules's face looks suspicious to me. The single pimple on the edge looks suspicious to me. The weight of the coin is suspicious to me. The very straight, very thin, very sharp, somewhat deep lines on the edge, look suspicious to me. Some of these things I didn't notice, until they were mentioned later in this thread. Even a couple of experienced ancient coin collectors in this thread, thought the coin looked fine, at first glance. Barry Murphy works for NGC Ancients, the most highly respected ancient coin slabbing company, and is a true professional expert and highly respected in the realm of ancient coin collecting for his ability to identify fake ancient coins. Barry Murphy said in this thread, that coin is fake, therefore you can be assured that the coin is fake. When I'm trying to authenticate a coin, I often search the following 2 web sites, and I compare the coin to the coins on the 2 web sites. Especially the acsearch web site. https://www.acsearch.info/ https://www.vcoins.com/en/Default.aspx Don't feel too badly. I've accidentally bought fake coins, especially when I first started collecting ancient coins. I think, that most new ancient coin collectors have accidentally bought fake coins. Some fakes are very clever (not this coin though, seemingly), and have fooled even experienced collectors and dealers. I may have a few ancient coins in my collection, which are fake, but I don't know it yet. I think that many ancient coin collectors suspect, that some of their coins may be fake, or tooled, or may have fake patinas, or fake toning, but they don't know for sure. It's just 1 of those risks, which most ancient coin collectors accept. As you said, your grandfather was not an experienced ancient coin collector. He probably thought the coin may be authentic. If you ever feel like shopping for ancient coins, the above vcoins web site has many interesting ancient coins, many for less than $50. Vcoins has a pretty good reputation, in that 99% of the coins seem to be authentic, although I wonder if maybe some dealers sell a few tooled coins, or coins with a fake patina, either accidentally or on purpose.
Thank you very much Sand, that was a very informative reply! A nice little 'crash education' I've gotten here. My question on the variable traits of these ancient beauties has been thoroughly addressed, and now makes much more sense to my inquiring mind. I really was hoping to be wrong on Grandpa's coin, but deep in my heart I felt it was likely a fake. Isn't it a pretty piece anyways I think! I really admire you collectors of ancients. The clues in strange symbols to stories told and the deciphering thereof. All in miniature form! I certainly see the appeal of that challenge, being somewhat of a history buff myself. Not only are the ancients beautiful and full of mystique, but one sure must also learn a lot about the history and cultures of long long ago. Thank you all for your time and shared expertise. My next ancient coin now has a better chance of being authentic!
