Thoughts on this counterfeit 1908 motto $10 Gold?

At least one member is thinking out of the box.

The devices on the edge of coins can be applied with a single donut shape collar, a segmented collar, or a roller collar used for incuse letters. On some coins the edge was applied before the coin was struck. On other coins, Sac dollars for example, the edge letters are applied when the coin is rolled thru an edge tool after it is struck. That's why there are no raised vertical bars that would result with a segmented collar.

 

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Castaing machine - A machine invented by French engineer Jean Castaing that added the edge lettering and devices to early U.S. coins before they were struck. These machines were used until the introduction of close collar dies, which applied the edge device during the striking process.

 

If the design is incused into the coin rim - it would be raised on the collar. Therefore when the coin is struck the metal would flow around the design element on the collar. In this case the collar would be stuck in the coin. If the design is raised on the rim - it would be incused on the collar. Therefore when the coin is struck the metal would flow into the collar. In this case the coin would be stuck in the collar. The collar has to be segmented so it can be pulled apart to release and eject the coin without shearing the design from the rim.

 

Except on the proofs where the edge lettering is applied at the time of strike by a segmented collar.

On the old round pounds they used a combination, the edge lettering was applied pre-strike by a version of the Castaining machine, and then the reeds were applied by a reeded collar during the strike.

 

Coin tested at my local coin shop within tolerance at 89.7%.

 

@Insider
With this fineness this coin have to be a good old Merchant Libanese example.
Chinese Fakes are of lower Purity and lower quality for what I have seen so far.

 

Conder101, posted: "Except on the proofs where the edge lettering is applied at the time of strike by a segmented collar."

Cool. I'll need to look at the edge the next time we get a proof in.

Rheingold, posted: "With this fineness this coin have to be a good old Merchant Libanese example.
Chinese Fakes are of lower Purity and lower quality for what I have seen so far."

Probably true for older silver issues but I have yet to see a U.S. gold coin I can say was struck in China.

 

Mine will be coming your way @Insider ...

 

@Insider
The lebanese were manufacturing these during their civil war and a brief period before.
Since the civil war, things are murky, as to if theyre still being made, it hasnt been publicized if the factories/rings were shut down, which is pretty odd in of itself.

 

Here is an NGC certified one.



And here is a Matte Proof I handled many years ago. I don't have a picture of the edge, but it would not have made much difference. The coin was certified and the edge was hard to see.

 

You will see it on the proof President dollars and Innovation dollars. Oh and the Sac dollar had a plain edge so no segmented collars, they are on the NA dollars.

In 2007 when they started using the segmented collars the collar dies were the same shape and could be put in the collar in the wrong order. There is a variety of the Proof Jefferson dollar where they transposed two of the segments. Instead of 2007 S IN GOD WE TRUST E PLURIBUS UNUM, it says 2007 S E PLURIBUS UNUM IN GOD WE TRUST. After the error was discovered they changed the edge segments so they could only be put in in the correct order. I think most people don't know about the Jefferson variety.