The Future of Daniel Carr Overstrikes?

Come on guys, keep it civil. I don't want another one of my threads mysteriously disappearing overnight...

 

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at leastcoin talk does not use black vans lol

 

I am being civil. I answered your original question with my opinion. Can I help it if others don't like it?

Chris

 

Call it what you wish but in my opinion the guy makes counterfeit coins. I'll never be good with that.

 

Exactly copying someone else's work while steadfastly refusing to admit it isn't a sign of high morals imo, nor is the extreme hypocrisy displayed in his approach towards other producers of fantasies or reproductions.

Again, most of we non-fans perfectly "understand" what he does and what his copies represent. Even if you choose to see otherwise, the positions taken simply do not come from ignorance, blindness, or some unfortunate lack of understanding.

As for his "artistry", beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. If some schmo can defecate in a can or box and have it lauded as "art", the standard is very, very low. The "art" of renaissance masters this is not.

 

Exactly. The haters just don't get that but they are entitled to their ignorant opinion (no malice intended) and honestly all great fringe artists are viewed with such dichotomy. My go to analogy is Banksy. Most think he is a genius while others think his work is just graffiti that needs a pressure washer. I actually like it, they do a great service in getting more people to check him out and thereby gain more fans which drives more sales for him and higher premiums in the aftermarket for us. Bring it on guys. Let's put a little more coin in dan's pockets as it were

As for his press, it's a decommissioned Denver Mint Grabner press he bought at a surpluss auction in 2008. He also was the designer of 2 state quarters, NY and I think Rhode Island. He is very meticulous and ethical about his overstrike designs. He won't create an issue that can be altered to imitate an actual us mint coin and uses actual coins as planchets which is why they are overstrikes.

 

Huh, he fully admits and gives credit to the designers of the issues he overstrikes. They are in the public domain and belong to the people of the United States. He's an American isn't he? Therefore he has every right to use them. Now, the ones that are copywrited like the obverse of the sac dollar are not in the public domain so he doesn't use them.

Wondering when you'd chime in books

 

Here we go again.

As far as the future of what he does I am not sure, but something in platinum or some more CSA themes would be at the top of my wish list.

 

Some posts removed. With such debates, it is impossible to draw a "perfect" line (what is still OK, what is "too" heated?) ... but try staying on the civil side.

 

Too late he is already there

 

Well the skinny around my area about D.C. is most of the LCS's around here have never heard of him. I took one in to show a dealer I know awhile back and he said it was "a good fake." I corrected him and said over strike. He was interested and looked up D.C. online. I would not recommend selling a D.C. over strike at a coin shop. ( he wanted mine but only wanted to pay melt!) Which I get, but there are those hardcore D.C. collectors out there who would pay more than that.
His over strikes, I think most would agree, are a specialty item. Now some of you yell counterfeit, and act as if the sky is falling, other's appreciate his over strikes for what they are. Also, don't fail to forget the numerous other designs Mr. Carr has come up with on his own. In fact I think some are far better than what's been chosen from the mint in recent years. Over strikes are one aspect of what he does. It's clear there is a "Counterfeit Camp" and an "Over Strike" camp when one of these threads gets going. As for the future of his over strikes, that is in the hands of the collectors, those that have interest in them. As long as there is a demand for D.C. over strikes, I think the future looks good. Collectors should know this, so the question future Carr over strikes? Has answered itself. IMO.

 

I like his over strikes the one that I missed was the Franklin Half.
On the other hand that owl octagonal is a great example of his art.

 

What is the price point for most of his other items? I am dubious these two would sell well, as they would be far above the price point at which most collectors buy their coins.

When I resumed collecting in 1998, I bought a few replicas from the Gallery Mint Museum, like 1793 Liberty Cap cent, proof Draped Bust/Small Eagle half dollar and 1792 disme. I subsequently concluded I would rather own real coins.

There is certainly a market for Carr's work (better than GMM to my knowledge), but I doubt anywhere near as many buyers would be willing to pay up for a gold fantasy coin as they do for the others. There are many real coins with appealing numismatic credentials that almost certainly sell for the same or less versus the price he would charge for an item like that.

 

The over-strikes seem to be viewed by some as "edgy", and by many as "controversial". I don't think that will hurt their long-term values. Similar characteristics have bolstered the values of some art pieces, such as those by Andy Warhol, for example.

Regarding the differences of opinion in this thread -
They are actually quite tame compared to some that have been directed my way in the past. As a numismatist, I couldn't hope for a better job than the one where I get to have great fun making things I like, even though it is also hard work. The one downside of such success is dealing with the bitterness and jealousy of some people.

In early 2008, shortly after I started making "what if ?" Union of North America "Amero" concept coins, I actually received two different death threats for making them. Yes, death threats for making a coin for the simple purpose of getting people to think about the ramifications of a North American Union. Ridiculous. The idiots thought I was actually responsible for a European-style monetary union for North America. Anyway, I didn't let that stop me - I'm still making Amero coins (just not as many as I used to, due to the greatly diminished likelihood of an actual North American Union).

 

Chris actually has me wondering what Carr could do with a Fat Man Dollar....

Not that I would ever advocate such a thing in any situation other than hypothetical, but there's nothing technologically stopping a hateful numismatist from creating near-flawless Fat Man Dollars (the big-money issue to well-heeled Chinese collectors) and giving the larger Chinese collectors a taste of what their peers are doing to us. Their government obviously cares not at all about their citizens flooding the market with counterfeits; perhaps a taste of their own medicine affecting wealthy Chinese is what it will take.

 

The closest comparison is the Confederate gold Double Eagle over-strikes that I produced in 2011. I did them as an over-striking service. To get one, a person had to send me a genuine type-1 (1850-1861) US Liberty Head gold Double Eagle, plus $250. With the cost of the host coin figured in, the total cost was close to $2,000 per coin. 23 such pieces were over-struck. I also offered the same thing struck on 1-troy-oz 999 gold blanks. Those were priced at $2,150 and 14 were struck. 199 were also struck in brass and those sold out quickly at $40 each.

I do plan to do a "1934" St. Gaudens gold Double eagle over-strike at some point. After figuring the costs, I don't expect to make much of a profit on it (if any). But I want to do it nonetheless.

 

That would be *awesome*. Any chance you'd consider doing those in brass and/or silver as well?

 

I have thought about doing various over-strike foreign coins. But if I do any, they would be as a result of my own collector interest. One that I have thought about is a fantasy-date over-strike Mexico "Caballito" silver peso.

As far as taking a jab at Chinese principles, that was the purpose behind this medal I made in 2012:

 

Not sure. Brass or silver would mean that it isn't an over-strike. And if it isn't an over-strike on a genuine $20 face value coin, I would be hesitant to put a "$20" face value on it.

 

BWAHAAAAAHAAAAAAHAHAHA!

OK, I gots to have me one of these.