I agree with @Insider, the CAC site, numerous others that have iterated my original words, which an intellect as yourself may locate. JMHO
If you are happy, that is what matters. It does not matter that you have not convinced me that you are correct. It is your choice in what you collect and how you evaluate a piece. On the subject of your original words being used by the CAC Team site...or any other site reiteration quoting CAC concerning your claim of origin of your position, no.
Are there any statistics available from PCGS or NGC on the percentage of gold-stickered submissions that receive an upgrade?
The statistics on CAC do not include the percentage of gold-stickered coins submitted to NGC or PCGS that got an increase in grade from the service. The only ways to know these percentages is if NGC or PCGS has kept track, OR if someone has submitted a large number of gold-stickered coins to these services for regrading and noted the percentage that got an upgrade.
Sigh.... What is it you are trying to ascertain: 1) The pieces that received an increase from CAC by receiving a Gold Sticker, or: 2)Received from the TPG (NGC and/or PCGS) AFTER receiving a Gold Sticker? The first: the only way that would occur is if the piece was re-submitted for reconsideration AFTER the Gold Sticker (which would be a somewhat silly thing to do. The second: How would that occur unless removed from the original Holder and re-submitted? That would be dumber. A suggestion; navigate to the CAC website and enter the Forum and ask any question you like. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Sheesh. Why would anyone consider doing so and risk losing the Gold Sticker? I don't understand any issue you are attempting to convey. Your questions have a tint "of oh yeah?", as if there is some type of "gotcha" to your quest for info. Don't care for CAC? No issue. Prefer NGC and/or PCGS? No issue. Confusing CAC and CACG? It appears so. You may not be that PCGS shares a data base with CAC. If you were, you may rephrase your questions. Shoot the messenger? I don't mind. JA will answer your questions and the CAC Team will also answer. There is no upside to simply blahblahing to blahblah. Truth in editing: added a "d" where appropriate and added an "l" where appropriate.
I'll just discuss the options for PCGS. A PCGS-holdered coin can be submitted for either regrading or reconsideration. In the regrading process, the coin is removed from the holder, moves through the grading process, and is put in a new holder with a new cert. number. In the reconsideration process, the coin is graded in its original holder. If the grade increases, the coin is put in a new holder with a new cert number. If the grade does not change, the coin is left in its original holder and returned to the sender. Reconsideration is often used by folks with coins in older holders or coins with a CAC sticker on the slab. There is no risk of losing the OGH or CAC sticker if the grade does not increase. If you submit a CAC-stickered coin for reconsideration, you have to think the higher grade is worth losing the sticker. In terms of value, this is often the case. For many coins, its value with the CAC sticker is worth less than the value it acquires by going up one grade and losing the CAC sticker. And of course, you can always submit the coin to CAC with its now higher grade. Cal
Should there be any relationship between the number of submissions and the number that successfully CAC? Why should there be?
A relevant question. Kind of depends on the submitter's ability to grade. Also on whether the possible upgrade in value makes it worth submitting. These are two pre-filters to the subset of data you are talking about.
Cutting thru all the BS about the gold stickered thing- I think the gold stickered concept interesting but send them in (grading) if you want all the money. Most in my coin club (poll) will not pay above the grade on the holder in the real world. I would never pay above the grade on the holder but doubt I would be offered one and even then just pass. They do make a good convo piece huh? My take the gold sticker is JA telling submitter he thinks it’s undergraded. It’s interesting how they will argue back and forth on this like how many pts it would upgrade. Just a bunch of nothing lol.
There may be a misunderstanding in your coin club, as, if you investigate, JA/CAC is providing an honest service that you can't obtain from the TPG. If you'd obtain a "Gold Bean", generally. there are many buyers for that item, at a significant premium! It isn't unusual to see a 100%, or significantly greater premium, on a scarce date Pre-1933 U.S. Gold coin with a "Gold Bean". CAC is inundated with business, currently rejecting new clients! I would love to get some of my already CACed scarce date Gold coins in a new CAC holder, but as an octogenarian, know I wont live that long! JMHO P.S.: You may find more, but here's an example you may understand; https://www.ebay.com/itm/154734641475?hash=item2406e74143:g:SnAAAOSwsUphrNXr&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAA0GEW+WRLncOPWt8u9fC9Bbvrn1suhRBB+/ZMeZcRTdT45bmtIekVmCSWxWN4vVTF9q4X2++pIDofA4KrXjXAC47i6q1lgaE7MyrruNYOnJJ5t4g3UKQ60Roz91gGrDKc0FWyBwbbeGODhL7dwYFRPhvK0E/1sdXSEPxuCIJgaOLw73ZkC15cU4cPE9iUgsXqet2cEUXHihwPSnSYhdoW2QpSs8H/qMHxKXWN5/7SgPaGaBDXvLXhYen+13hBQYbws1sLTjExvIGfgCkUEet7FEA=|tkp:Bk9SR_iC6emXYg Versus This Which I Purchased: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2759006589...uSenAWg1zA/UfHsGvYmxjgDg==|tkp:Bk9SR_7LmfyXYg
Don't you understand that another, greater experienced (i.e. ~40 years as a grader, post #53) seemingly concurs with my statement: "From what I read, hear, the green sticker signifies that the coin in the holder is at the middle to high end of the grade on its label." (@Insider)
With GREAT RESPECT to you, as a possible Defendants' Counsel in a litigious action concerning grading accuracy, I would present published TPG "Photo-grade" images to the court, explaining that the Subjective photos do not totally reflect the published "verbage" of the grade, thus the standard is null and void. I've seen numerous examples to support my presentation!
Player11, posted: "I think the gold stickered concept interesting but send them in (grading) if you want all the money. Most in my coin club (poll) will not pay above the grade on the holder in the real world." Unfortunately, the members of your coin club are not in the "Real World" where the long-time, successful, movers & shakers of the commercial coin market live. In my personal experience, EVERY SINGLE COIN THAT I KICKED MYSELF FOR PAYING MORE THAN I FELT I SHOULD HAVE resulted in an extremely wonderful outcome. Simply stated, some MS-65's are worth more than other MS-65's. Buy the coin, not the label. You are preaching to the choir. Decades ago, as an expert witness in a Federal Trade Commission Trial, I helped demolish the prosecutor's case by proving how subjective the grading standards were. A group of professional numismatists including myself graded the same coin from AU-58 to MS-65!
I've supported/presented more properly graded ICG coins to others, and posted similar on this site with ANACS. NGC, PCGS same-date/grade coins! I attempted to show Stellar grading capability of a company believed having a lesser advertising budget than some others, but occasionally superior quality! Thanks for your enlightenment, believed quality effort!! I'm still learning/teaching!
A PCGS or NGC graded coin with a CAC sticker is the same as a coin in a CACG slab. A PCGS/NGC MS64 CAC coin is the same as a CACG MS64. A coin that did not sticker at CAC would either not receive a grade at CACG or it would be downgrade. A PCGS/NGC MS64 that failed at CAC would either be a details coin at CACG or a MS63 or less. CACG is going to see plenty of high end coins. If you read the CAC forums there are many advanced collectors over there that can’t wait to send stacks of their collections to CACG for crossover.
