I follow Stack's on Facebook and recently they showed a little video of a gold Brazilian piece countermarked with the same stamp as Brasher's famous Doubloons. My question is, in the video they say the piece was clipped multiple times, plugged, plus has a countermark. PCGS straight graded the piece. Am I missing something? Any other coin would have detail graded, right? It's not bothering me that it did straight grade as much as I want to know why it didn't details grades. Thanks for any insight.
I don't know the answer to your questions, but the Brasher countermarks on foreign gold coins are pretty interesting. A 1766 guinea with a Brasher c/m was allegedly found in one of the local public squares here (Brunswick, GA). Normally I would dismiss that, but knowing of the person who allegedly found it, and of the site and the other things that were dug there in the 1980s, I believe it.
Was there a countermark other than Brasher's on the piece? Because on certain issues, the countermarks change the identity of the coin from its host coin identity to whatever new identity the countermark makes it into. And if a type from a certain country or issuing body is only known on holed or clipped host coins, then it's not considered to be a "problem" worthy of notation. It's just par for the course. If they're ALL like that, then they can be worthy of a straight grade. At least that's what I suspect must be going on in the example you cited.
Cool! It was a gold Brazilian 1754 6400 Reis. It has only the brasher countermark. The video does say it was clipped, plugged and clipped again to comply with various local monetary systems as it traveled the west indies. So maybe that's the reasoning? Here's a screenshot of the coin and a link to a little blurb about it. https://stacksbowers.com/sydney-f-m...l-6400-reis-sells-for-168000-by-ben-mahaffey/
Hmm... I dunno. But if the EB counterstamp had made it into a "problem" coin, I'd happily have accepted the "details" grade. I need more "problems" like that!
Could be. A lot of places in the West Indies at the time had their local coinages which consisted of countermarked and/or cut-down coins only. And once it's catalogued under one of those categories, it ceases to really be a Brazilian 6400 reis anymore (except as host), and becomes... well... whatever the countermark made it into.
Interesting. I don't think any of the grading companies would refuse a coin because of a countermark. The clipping...wellllllll, if that were done to comply with laws, that might be allowed also (seems like I have seen "adjustment" marks on older coins that look like damage, but were allowed). Plugged, that one would seem to be a game changer.
Not really. The plug adjusted the weight to local standards, just like the clipping did. The countermark certified it met those standards. This is in the same vein as "pieces of 8" or "silver center" cents. They sometimes did weird things to make sure the value of the money was good. This is very different than how we normally use the term "plugged", which is, a coin doctor plugs one of Lord Marcovan's holey coins in an effort to make it look better.
This is all well beyond my knowledge, but I can't see any areas that were "plugged." Doesn't the term "plugged" denote a hole was made and then repaired? It appears the entire edge of the coin was removed at some point, or were they struck on undersized planchets?
So, I suppose it boils down to the official-ness of the modifications. The edges were definitely clipped down, but I couldn't find a plug either.
The host coin appears to be worn to VF or so. I can only assume that the AU-53 grade applies only to the counterstamp, not the host. Note that the EB counterstamp is directly on the plug which was most likely inserted by Brasher himself, who not only approved the coin with his counterstamp but regulated it by bringing it back up to weight with the plug, after having been clipped previously. More problematic is the second clipping, apparently post-Brasher. If only the counterstamp is graded, however, any damage to the host is irrelevant. To truly grok TPG grading of esoteric pieces such as this, one must first (in my opinion) acquire proficiency in the arcane arts... 'smoke and mirrors'. https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/...razil-1754-b-6400-r/495/5861753884025866757/1
