Featured Learn About Die Doubling...

Platoonof1 · Dec 12, 2021

so what is this considered cuz i got into a arguement with a shady coin dealer in boise over this

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Platoonof1 · Dec 12, 2021

Platoonof1 said: ↑

so what is this considered cuz i got into a arguement with a shady coin dealer in boise over this
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whats the big problem with letting noobs upload a freaking pict for fk's sake

justyn p · Dec 12, 2021

Great informative post JTwax

expat · Dec 12, 2021

Platoonof1 said: ↑

whats the big problem with letting noobs upload a freaking pict for fk's sake
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There is no problem, it is the way it is. Just reply to 10 posts and you will be ready to go. A word of advice, your response above will have already been noted by the Mods so try to have a bit of patience and modify your responses.
Welcome to CT and hopefully we can see what you want seen. Start a thread of your own in an appropriate sub-forum.

desertgem · Dec 12, 2021

The reason is that the majority of oversea spam and infection comes on the first post.... with luck, we catch them and they are gone before they can leave any problems. Yes even abbreviations of curse or slang are not accepted. Welcome

Jim

XRP · Apr 1, 2022

Cool post, thanks!

MachDJ7O · Aug 10, 2022

I have to wonder about my 1972-D Lincoln Pennies. They have a noticeable deformed 9 in 1972. But There is not really a Mint Mark error. I could be wrong. Pennies are not real big and these are both, not really good condition. Sorry about the poor quality picture. My web cam is worse than my phone so I thought the phone is better. (I Just added a picture of a 1998 Wide AM but you cannot really tell, I guess I just wonder if it is done better. The penny photo was taken in a lower light

expat · Aug 10, 2022

MachDJ7O said: ↑

I have to wonder about my 1972-D Lincoln Pennies. They have a noticeable deformed 9 in 1972. But There is not really a Mint Mark error. I could be wrong. Pennies are not real big and these are both, not really good condition. Sorry about the poor quality picture. My web cam is worse than my phone so I thought the phone is better. (I Just added a picture of a 1998 Wide AM but you cannot really tell, I guess I just wonder if it is done better. The penny photo was taken in a lower light
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Hi and welcome to CT. It is not possible to form an opinion from those images. Take new ones with better lighting and in focus. Crop out all background. Start a thread in the errors section. Before you hit create post make sure the images are uploaded using the Upload a file button and click on Full Size for all. Good luck

BadApple · Jan 11, 2023

Had no idea of that part of the process. Much thx for share the information with us all.

BadApple · Apr 2, 2023

Platoonof1 said: ↑

so what is this considered cuz i got into a arguement with a shady coin dealer in boise over this
Click to expand...

There is a lot of shade coin dealers in Boise. I have dealt with all if them in the past and not an honest one there. Although it has been 10+ years since I have been back over there.

Coin roll nickler · Apr 26, 2023

Very in depth knowledge and good to know, too. Thank You

capthank · May 24, 2023

1879 O Morgan that I believe is machine doubled. Question? Does this qualify as a VAM?

capthank · May 24, 2023

BadApple said: ↑

There is a lot of shade coin dealers in Boise. I have dealt with all if them in the past and not an honest one there. Although it has been 10+ years since I have been back over there.
Click to expand...

Rosehill or Treasure Valley?

eddiespin · Jul 12, 2023

capthank said: ↑

1879 O Morgan that I believe is machine doubled. Question? Does this qualify as a VAM?
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I wouldn't think so. A VAM is off the die, it's not off the striking. When off the die, it's repeatable, and as such collectible. Off the striking, it's just a one-time event, unique, an aberration, and no two are the same.

expat · Jul 12, 2023

capthank said: ↑

1879 O Morgan that I believe is machine doubled. Question? Does this qualify as a VAM?
Click to expand...

ALL Morgan and Peace dollars are VAM's. An anomaly doesn't make a VAM. It is an ongoing study over many years of die marriages, die states (early, middle and late) and includes the assorted varieties such as near date, far date, upright, tilted or high and low mintmarks etc.
If you read this site (especially the beginners 101 page) you will begin to understand the complexity of the study.
http://vamworld.com/wiki/Main_Page

Branden Mulhollen · Jan 12, 2024

jtwax said: ↑

How Doubled Dies are Created and Their Classes.

Determining Die Doubling from Other Forms of Doubling. (Requires Acrobat Reader)

Take the Doubling I.Q. Test.

Doubling: Worthless or Valuable?

What is an RPM or OMM?

Two exciting varieties to collect. Two formidable tasks that require a steady stream of knowledge, information and most importantly, help. If you decide to explore their potential enjoyment and challenge then here is some information and perhaps a little, help.

You should be familiar with the minting process before you dwell to deeply into acquiring RPMs and OMMs. It would be wiser to have more than just a cursory knowledge of the minting process of course, so it is recommend that you try to obtain a book or reference on this subject when you can.

RPM and OMM varieties are closely associated with the DIE as part of the overall minting process, so it is also highly recommended that you at least perceive how a die is created and obtain reference materials on this specific subject too. As you read this RPM and OMM information, you will understand the importance of gaining knowledge about the die-making process.

At the Mint, a die is created. When the die is almost finished by the mint workers there comes the task of placing the Mint mark on the die before it will be used to produce millions of coins (pre-1990).

The Mint employee who puts the Mint mark on the die is commonly referred to as the ENGRAVER. The engraver is sitting behind a counter or table. In front of him or her will be clamps or a device commonly know as a "vice". The die is secured between this clamp or vice so it will not move during the remainder of this process. On the table nearby, the engraver will have a detailed sketch or drawing of the coin design. On this drawing there will be a special highlighted area where the Mint mark is to be placed. By "area" we are referring to a specific designated place on the die that is much wider and longer than the actual size of a Mint mark. There is plenty of room or latitude for the engraver to work within. This latitude explains why you will find a "S" Mint mark say, for 1955 cents, in different locations under the date. For instance, on one die for 1955 S cents the Mint mark was placed just to the right or east under the "9" of the date. On another die the Mint mark is found directly under the "5" of the date. Both Mint marks are within the space or area shown on the sketch, yet in different locations therefore within the Mint "standards".

The Mint mark punch is typical of punches you can purchase at any hardware store. At the Mint, the shaft of the punches are color-coded by using different colors of paint so the engraver can easily determine which punch has the Mint mark of "D" or "S" and so on. The shaft of the punch is "V" shaped. This "V" shape grooving on the side of the shaft allows the engraver to readily "feel" that the punch is in the proper upright (or normal) position. At the end of the punch is the letter of the Mint mark in its normal size, shape, etc.

The engraver looks at the sketch and the location or area where the Mint mark is to be positioned or placed. Once the engraver is satisfied that the "V" shaped grooves are in his hand correctly and that the tip of the punch that has the Mint mark of "D" or "S", etc., is the proper position, the thick end or top of the punch is hit firmly by a mallet.

How hard is the punch hit? However hard the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. How many times is the punch hit? However many times the engravers experience, expertise, judgment and ability deems appropriate. No one really knows the answer to this question. But one thing is for sure - Variety collectors can at least intelligently guess how hard and how many times. That's one of the primary reasons they collect these varieties in the first place!

It is generally accepted consensus of RPM and OMM collectors that the engraver strikes the punch with the mallet more than one time in order to assure that the Mint mark is sufficiently imprinted into the die face. However, it is equally noteworthy that many times the Mint mark is placed on the die with only one blow to the mallet in the opinion of some experts.

RPMs occur after the engraver strikes the mallet with the first blow to the top of the punch. Remember that the Mint mark punch is hand held and struck by the mallet in this manner. After the first blow, the engraver will check that the Mint mark has been placed inside the designated area that is on the sketch. A careful check will also be made to assure that the Mint mark punched into the die is clearly visible and sufficient enough for the coining process. If, in the judgment of the engraver, another blow with the mallet is required the punch is placed back on top to the original Mint mark and struck again, or again, or again, or .... until the engraver is satisfied. It is also possible that the initial blow from the mallet to strike the Mint mark could cause a "bounce" of the punch, thus creating a doubled, tripled, or more Mint mark punch.

The exact repositioning of the tip of the punch on top of the Mint mark already placed on the die requires a steady hand, keen eyesight, and solid nerves. If the Mint mark at the tip of the punch for the second strike is not positioned exactly on top of the existing Mint mark then a RPM has been created. If a third, fourth, fifth, six, etc., blows occur then multiples of the Mint mark can and have appeared. This inaccuracy is the foundation for the joy of searching for RPMs!

An OMM is a coin that has two (2) different letters or Mint marks punched into the same die. It is generally accepted by the RPM and OMM variety community that there are two primary reasons why a die would have two distinctly different Mint marks.

The first reason is premised upon economic measures instituted by the Mint. A die already has, say, a "D" Mint mark in the die. The die is in such a condition where it can continue to be used to produce coins, so a decision is made by the Mint to use the "D" Mint mark die for "S" Mint mark coins. It is ordered that a "S" be punched on top of the original "D". The "S" Mint mark coins with the "D" underneath are produced and a OMM is created for the collector!

The second reason is not associated with Mint policy, practices, or cost-saving efforts, but rather, a unintentional mistake by the engraver. Remember that the punch the engraver used is colored so they would know which punch had a "D", "S" etc. Picture that the engraver has a die which requires a "D" Mint mark. The "S' punch is unintentional picked-up and the blow by the mallet is struck. The engraver is checking this first blow to be assure it is inside the area shown on the sketch. The engraver sees the "S" Mint mark was used and not the "D". An error has occurred. Instead of discarding the die the engraver simply takes the correct "D" Mint mark punch and "covers" his mistake with it via several blows to the mallet. No harm done. The die is usable for its life in the coining press.

Conversely, the engraver may not even notice that a "S" has been placed on the die intended for a "D". An interruption, break, lunch, etc., and the engraver returns to the task at hand. Pick-up the colored punch with the "D" Mint mark and strike one or more blows to the mallet without looking at the original or error "S" Mint mark that is showing. The engraver unintentionally made a mistake and never knew it. If the engraver did look and did see the "S" no one but the engraver will ever know.

RPMs and OMMs come in many different forms and configurations. No in-depth discussion of these attributes is necessary right now, but for your enjoyment of "the hunt", RPMs and OMMs can be found in a vertical over horizontal position: a vertical over inverted position: on top or under the number (s) of the date: with two totally separated Mint marks: even tilted: and, the overlapping of a Mint mark once or several times in succession.

If terms such as "inverted" or "vertical" or "tilted" seem confusing, even contradictory, when thinking of the engraver sitting there at the bench with the punch in hand that is waiting to be struck by the mallet then welcome to the great realm of RPM and OMM collecting! Whatever you do, don't fret over the terms.

Lastly, don't forget that since 1990 the Mint mark has been made directly on the die. There will be no true RPMs and OMMs from 1990 to the present. No big deal, though. There are thousands and thousand out there in variety-land just waiting to be collected and discovered... by you!

- by George Wilkinson
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Very informative, thank you! Most coins are punched by a machine correct?

Petercoin · Apr 18, 2024 at 7:26 AM

Hello to everyone that may have some opinions on this Morgan dollar.
Weight is 26.68 g, Sigma verification
as 90% silver
This coin is very exquisite in that ,look to be DMPL, has doubling and clash marking.
Have a look
Thanks

Petercoin · Apr 18, 2024 at 10:07 AM

Petercoin said: ↑

Hello to everyone that may have some opinions on this Morgan dollar.
Weight is 26.68 g, Sigma verification
as 90% silver
This coin is very exquisite in that ,look to be DMPL, has doubling and clash marking.
Have a look
Thanks
Click to expand...

I am updating my uploaded media
Without the capsule.
Maybe someone's can have opinions
on what has happen with this Morgan.

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