CAC Coin Price Chart

This is a yuge topic that I'd happily discuss with you over a beer or three but not here. I would like to point out, though, that a fundamental difference exists between "inability" and "unwillingness."

As for CAC, I agree with baseball21 that it can be a very usefull learning tool. At any rate, anyone is free to ignore CAC and TPG services if they wish and buy raw. Personally, I like owning CAC'd coins, even though I believe I can grade well, for the additional premium the bean usually brings.

 

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Correction "Some people "
Some people walk into a super market deli and buy Ham or Turkey breast at a price point of $2.99 @ lb. Because they aren't bright enough to read the label and see they are buying turkey or ham flavored gelatin .
Some people go into a car dealership pay full sticker price plus every add on the sales man tells them they need.
You know this argument is either black or white.....if you're the type who needs assurance them maybe you need a sticker.
If you're the type to question what you're buying, and make educated choices then the sticker is just that a sticker.
I will venture to say that every member here has either purchased or sold a coin and made an error in doing so.
As for TPG'S and stickers the people who issue are as human as I am.....and can very well make the same human mistakes.
I prefer to learn from my mistakes,and not pay for the mistakes of others.

 

I really don't see how they're baiting anyone into abandoning any skills or not learning. They will add notes to some coins that fail that you send to them and discuss coins with you if you catch it. If anything they actively encourage learning in my opinion. Out of all the services they are by far the most collector friendly and wish the TPGs would follow that lead.

 

Amen to this.

"Good judgement comes from experience. Experience, well, that comes from bad judgement." -Anonymous

 

I must shamefully admit I let a price guide outbid me once, a mistake I haven't repeated since. To add insult to injury the coin it outbid me on was won by a CU poster who made a thread about how much better in hand it was than the pictures. Would really love to be able to do that one over again.

 

I've never really imagined the revenue stream CAC can generate to be remotely compensatory of what the same people *could* be making were they able to concentrate on their usual high-level numismatic activity. I may be wrong.

 

I would say our government is burdened by the dependency state, rather than that it thrives on it.

The free market allows CAC to be driven by profit just as it allows snake oil salesmen to be driven by it (or did until the FDA was created) and allows fools to buy snake oil because they don't know any better.

I think we'd all agree that ignorance has shown over history to be a much better salesman than information.

 

I've done the same, at least twice (slow learner). The most painful was a gorgeous 1865 NGC MS65* RD, carbon-free two cent piece that the eventual winner resubmitted and got a 66 upgrade.

I still kick myself over that one.

And btw, it CAC'd as a 66!

 

Sometimes I wonder why they don't just open up a grading service of their own, but hey? Why not just 'check' on the work of other folks and render an opinion? Clever. And I'm sure they have more work than they can handle, judging by the multitude of folks (here) that send them stuff.

 

CAC and the TPGs are analogous to the FDA only in a superficial way (i.e., as "watchdogs") but they are not in any way sanctioned by law (the government). It's the free market that allows CAC to exist in the first place, just as it allows unscrupulous coin doctors, over-grading dealers, snake oil salesmen and foolish consumers to exist.

I'm not sure I agree that CAC and the TPGs (I'll save the FDA) have tendrils that extend beyond their putative roles in the hobby. They're businesses that provide a service in hopes of making money. If you're implying nefarious intent, where do you draw the line? Is Weightwatchers nefarious because they prey upon dieters with low self-esteem? Is CAC as "evil" as Payday Loans? Etc.

 

I don't see it at all as buyers having doubts about their own skills. JA is a highly respected expert and a lot of people give his opinions weight just like Photoseal is successful because people give Rick Snows opinion weight for that. If it was just people having doubts every sticker service would be flourishing as people sought extra reassurance.

Numerous threads tell people to find a dealer and work with them and trust their opinion ect ect. How is CAC any different than that?

PCGS has free youtube videos that are a crash course on their grading seminars as well as some free books online. CAC will discuss any coin with submitters and doesn't even charge collector members for submitting. JA may not be out there giving grading seminars on the street corner but allowing collectors to use his service for free when things don't sticker is certainly a way for collectors to improve their grading.

 

Doug, I think your comments would hold true in an ideal world—but we don't live in one.

Consider a person buying a new car—especially if it's a nice, collector-quality (or maybe vintage) vehicle and he's an aficionado. Regardless of his knowledge of cars and the number of test drives he takes, he's likely to gather as many opinions, maybe by way of reviews, as he can to make the best decision he can.

Would you say he is lazy or incompetent because he solicits other opinions?

Just look at Amazon. Product reviews exist because people want as much information (i.e., second and third opinions) as they can find.

 

Humans want the most return for the least effort, and have always been arrogant enough to believe they deserve instant gratification. Only with my generation (born during the Eisenhower administration) did it become a problem that people didn't just naturally suppress in order to deal with reality, but every subsequent generation feels more entitled than the last.

So we're caught between a rock and a hard place, needing something like the TPG's to make numismatics - despite the fact that numismatics is scholarly craftsmanship, first and foremost - more accessible to newbies so the hobby survives and thrives, yet needing collectors to be able to function independently of them so they don't get taken for a ride and become disillusioned.

CAC was founded out of disgust, first and foremost.

 

A lot of the comments in this thread have been suggesting that these services are detrimental to the collector because they excuse or relieve him from the responsibility of learning how to grade and thus make him lazy.

What's missing is recognizing the convenience aspect of these services.

When I walk onto a bourse and am met with 150 tables sporting hundreds of cases of coins, it's much more efficient to zero in on CAC'd and slabbed coins rather than sift though binders. I still rely on my grading skills throughout the process. Am I potentially going to miss a diamond in the rough? Possibly, but I accept that trade-off.

I'll bet most if not everyone on CT has learned how to change a car's oil—and many or most of us still prefer to pay someone else do it.

Does convenience in general make us lazy? Not if we don't let it.

 

I don't see how respecting the opinion of someone else (especially when they have far more experience) has anything to do with doubting ones self. Professional athletes have coaches and trainers and no one would ever accuse them of doubting their own abilities. If nothing else different opinions and views force you to think through your own stance and will either strengthen it or change it.

Same reason that Photoseal started, an attempt to prevent better coins prices being dragged down by over-graded or mistake coins. Also as a way for the owners to easily identify coins in the market that they would be happy to purchase.

The market readily accepted both and I don't think that it is a coincidence that TPG grading has tightened since their acceptance.