Bad US coin buys

Just thinking aloud. Though I am not a fan of the gold Mercury, I wonder if it's issuance will result in new Mercury collectors. Same with the Standing Liberty quarter and the Walking Liberty half.

 

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I have experience in moderns and you don't. No one has more experience with 1982-P quarters and I'm telling you point blank that a true Gem that is well struck by good dies may not even exist for the date.

You claim it's common. All you have to do to substantiate your claim is to lay hands on one or a picture of one. You can't do it. I know before you start you can't do it. You can call it common all you want but you can't find one to show.

Across the boards it's the exact same thing. Rare coins are rare whether they were made in South Africa more than a century ago or in Philly last week. This is what coin collecting isa about; actually making collections and those who do this know what's common and what's rare; you are merely speculating based on mintages and what you think others are doing or have done.

 

Good attitude.

It is what collectors do; collect.

Some people just can't understand why others collect "common" coins.

 

I'm sure you're right that a lotof the most desirable modernbs have not been slabbed. They haven't been slabbed because the market is in its infancy and the owners have no desire to sell.

These owners are collectors for the main part rather than horders and investors.

 

Your standards are arbitrary, mine are not. You can't tell what a date looks like by pop reports. With moders what you are really seeing is how valuale the upper grades are. You can't tell from a pop report that decent looking '69 quarters or '76 Ikes are tough. You can only see how many Gems the services think exist based on their grading criteria. Their grading criteria are based on how classic coins are graded and don't take differences in standards and manufacture into account.

Collectors take such differences into account. These markets wouldn't still be in their infancy if they weren't continually be slammed by publishers, organizations, price guides, modern bashers, and dealers while being graded to the standards appropriate to coins from a century ago.

People hate moderns because they are "junk" and because they percieve them to all be as common as grains of sand on the beech. Older collectors have never forgiven the mint and FED for what they did to us in '64/ '65. They can never like debased junk.

 

No doubt there will be increased demand for the older coins.

 

ANY "Top Pop" Modern coin is a bad coin buy. Especially if there's a pop of 10 or more because the grading of a solitary coin 1 grade higher literally RIPS the guts out of any prices paid for a top pop coin.

 

This. I bought a 1981 5c T1 PR70DC when there were only 30 in that grade. A major modern dealer dumped hundreds of nickels on PCGS and managed to get 30+ more graded 70. The value of the coin feel 60% overnight. I fell out of love with moderns that day.

 

You and I have a polar opposite definition of rarity. Your definition of rarity when applied to moderns isn't even the one used by most other modern collectors, so why should I agree to it?

I have never disputed your definition since you can define it as you please. But then, since I have already told you this previously more times than I can even remember, you already knew it but had to repeat yourself anyway. As usual, when we have these disagreements, you go off on one of your tangents to demonstrate one of your trivial points which only a minimal number of collectors like you care about.

The original topic of this thread is about "bad coin buys". I don't think moderns (whether US or otherwise) are "bad" coin buys as collectibles but I concurrently don't believe and you haven't provided any reason whatsoever to demonstrate that there is any reason to believe their financial prospects are anything other than financially irrelevant, except as I have already conceded to you both here and in the past.

 

Your standards are yours. The TPG standards are equally as arbitrary because there are no absolute standards since quality is subjective. I use them because in the absence of an objective standard, its the "best" one available, as in most widely recognized. I am certainly not going to agree with you on your standards which you use to supposedly support your inflated opinions of both their scarcity and their merits. Like I told you once before, the idea that "rarity" has any meaning as used even by general US collecting practices (never mind your standards) is a farce.

People do not "hate" moderns. Many collectors do not prefer or dislike them (I am indifferent). But then as I have told you, no one has to have the same preferences you do.

As for the price guides, they are only relevant for lower priced coins because there is no evidence that the prices for most entries are above a nominal value are anything other than "made up". I have explained this to you numerous times, it is something totally obvious which anyone can verify for themselves independently yet you still bring this up over and over.

If the price guides were higher, except at nominal prices which are financially irrelevant, it isn't going to make these (or any other) coins worth more. This should be obvious from Krause which we both discussed before.

 

I for one have never stated or implied that anything should not be collected. It should be obvious that since collectors in large numbers can only collect what is available, that this is what most must and will actually do. You choose to infer meaning from my posts which I never implied, much less ever stated.

 

To piggy back on my story and to chime in to the discussion here, my feeling with respect to moderns is this: There are significant amounts of them minted, and significant amounts of them unaccounted for. Because of this, what may be recognized today as a wise purchase of a rare piece, may not be the same tomorrow, just because the market itself is not mature enough.

I see modern coins as late model cars. Yes, it may be collectible now, but it is still trading as a commodity in the market. Given time, the true rarities and value will become present.

On the other hand, I feel that classic coinage has done a good job of settling out. Not that new hoards or varieties aren't found every day, but as an example, it is quite unlikely that enough mint-state 1793 Chain cents will be discovered hidden away as to destroy the present value of the type.

 

And if you asked him how much he would pay to buy back the coin he then would laugh at you for being his sucker!.. All MS/PR 69/70 coins are just a big hype!..

 

The reality is exactly the opposite. New hordes of old coins come to light continually. Individuals rarities are discovered or rediscovered.

There are no collections of moderns in grandma's attic because no one saved moderns or sent them to Europe for safe keeping.

The market isn't immature because they are new but becauyse modern bashers, price guide publishers, dealers and even the ANA have worked to keep people from collecting them. I started collecting in 1957 and people would have laughed at me if I said the 41 year old '16-D dime was too modern to collect. Now moderns are over hal;f a century oild and everyone thinks they're too new!!!

 

No. This is a brand new one. You are saying that all clad quarters are worth 25c even if the price guide lists them for $600.

There are knowledgeable collectors who buy and sell moderns. They don't use prices from the guides. You can offer Krause price (10c) for rare moderns in every single media in the country and you won't recieve a single coin. Rare moderns rarely change hands. When they do usually only the buyer is knowledgeable and because Krause lists absurdly low prices the buyers are often foreign.

 

Translation; "All moderns are common".

 

We don't see eye to eye on much do we?

I don't think people should buy coins as investments or because they might retain their value. I admit that I always try to collect in areas that are out of favor and then when they get popular I trade them off for other things that are out of favor. This doesn't mean I want to make money or invest but merely that I like to have first crack at the things I do collect. I like to collect in fields that are unpopulated.

Part of all good investing is to be countercyclical. Most people buy high and sell low. They go along with what everyone else is doing so they almost always lose money. Now that classic coins are peaking before the supply glut caused by baby boomers retiring they are snapping them up.

Collect whatever you like but there's no need to demean or belittle what others like. The fact of the matter is that all collectors like scarcity so saying all moderns are common is bashing. Saying they have nominal value is bashing.

 

People who bought PR-70's in those days mostly weren't collectors. They were investors. Collectors would have been looking at coins and seeing that almost all the coins were ultra high grade.

Investors always lose money.

 

You could of bought some MS bust and seated coins for next to nothing..

 

I used to see some pretty nice looking XF bust halfs for a few dollars.

I always trade stuff when they start going up so I'd have missed most of the run. I learned a lot in this era and don't really have any regrets except maybe that I shouldda been paying more attention to Gems and varieties. Back then it was all about date and Mint Mark.