Paying over melt for cleaned pre-1933 U.S. gold coins?

@fiddlehead, I just like old coins. ;-)

I realize I'm paying a percentage over melt as opposed to buying bullion. That's just me, though.

 

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As I earlier predicted, educated buyers closed the following linked auction with a delivered price of ~300% melt value (of date predicted melt value) for the 1889cc "IMPROPERLY CLEANED" (i.e. not just cleaned) Double Eagle: http://coins.ha.com/itm/liberty-dou...Item-Inventory-BuyNowFromOwner-JumpLot-081514

I suggest one takes the seemingly fictitious/fantasy posts of valueless cleaned, and unrealistic/undocumented values for "cleaned" Gold Classic coins with "a grain of salt" (or multiple grains in this instance).

I've multiple dealers, who regularly attend coin shows, searching for cleaned specimens of competitively priced "cleaned" classic U.S. Gold coins. I also regularly search the internet for these "valueless" treasures. Few are seen at the discounted prices reported.

I personally have a large collection of believed properly cleaned certified U.S. Gold classic coins. Several have been "conserved" and resubmitted to "top tier" TPG for a realized grade.

I believe that many of the century old TPG certified grade coins have been cleaned, to realize additional value above some that are horrendously "toned".

JMHO

 

Probably better liquidity with the coins.

 

I completely agree. I bought this coin a few months ago that had been tagged as "cleaned" by PCGS. I liked it and could afford it so I bought it. In my humble opinion I just do not see a problem with coins that have been deemed cleaned by the major grading company's. I do stay away from obviously and harshly cleaned coins though.. Others might not agree but that's their opinion and I respect it. The $20 CC Liberty you posted pictures of is a very nice coin. I'd be proud to own it. If someone posted pic's of that coin in a cardboard 2X2 and asked if it had been cleaned or not, how many people would have said yes?

 

Not sure if I would have said "cleaned" straight away, but the reverse bothers me a bit. The X near IGWT, if it's on the coin, would probably kill it for me all by itself. The surfaces look weird, but that could be the photography.

 

I'm curious how you'd conserve the first coin pictured in this thread so it would straight grade MS. I'm seeing a heavily polished and hairlined piece that could be returned to an honest AU coin by the pocket piece method, but I don't know how to make an honest MS out of it.

 

You guys are way out of my league and I am completely lost regarding pocket piece methods and turning an AU coin to an MS coin. I commented because I believe that a coin that has been labeled as cleaned should not mean it is toxic.. Again, I am not talking about obviously cleaned or tampered with coins. If that 1889 CC did not have the designation and was graded AU with a number I am sure it would of sold for much more money.

 

The "pocket piece" method is effectively a way to take a cleaned coin and turn it into a slightly lower grade honest coin by carrying it around and letting it get some wear on it. Wear will obliterate the hairlines left from cleaning and give it an opportunity to tone the way a circulated coin should.

You can't go from AU to MS because AU means there's wear, and there's no removing wear. (Although, I have seen coins in AU slabs go to MS slabs, but that just means there was disagreement about the grade.)

 

Paul, Without having the coin in hand, I'll defer to your understanding of the limitations to which that coin could be "conserved" enough to receive a mint state grade. My opinion is like those of many posting here, occasionally anal, and it seems many have one.

There are various proprietary means through which minor defects can be attenuated/diminished , but I may have erred. It wont be the last time, unless I die while composing this response

JMHO

 

Paul, Although you may be correct that I've over estimated the potential for reversal, or under estimated the damage, like "body shops" will explain, there are many "items" to be found that cosmetic alterations have improved to make acceptable.

JMHO

 

I apologize for the multiple posts, but dependent upon which computer/O.S./browser I use for responses, this software will occasionally "double post", requiring an attempt to impossibly delete. I've now gone to a different computer for this post, which I hope will correct the problem. Sorry!!

 

I believe you'll also find that there are less scrupulous means by which to also increase a defective items value. It appears that the "auction house" may have taken "creative license" in labeling the discussed 1889cc coin as having an AU50 grade.

JMHO

 

For me, the premium I'd pay (or the lack of one) depends on the coin itself. A lightly-cleaned coin that still retains most of its luster would garner a significant premium approaching retail value (I'm not arrogant about my collection being completely problem-free, like some members here.). A heavily-polished coin of a common date is worth only melt to me. A cleaned better-date coin would be worth more than melt to me, but I would not be a buyer as I would rather use the money for a problem better date to buy a much-nicer problem-free common date.

To all of those arrogant lowballers out there: I would LOVE to buy all of your cleaned classic head gold for melt or even at a 10% premium over melt, no matter how cleaned or worn they are.