1921 Morgan with Cool Lamination VAM?

Hello all! Just got this 21 Morgan a couple days ago. It's got some very interesting lamination on the OBV. I not only wanted to share the awesomeness, but also had a few questions. First, notice the area in the hair that has the metal lifting from the surface. My question is.....will a TPG (I use ANACS for Morgans) slab this coin with the metal actually lifting off the surface?
Second, any help identifying the correct VAM would be really helpful. (It's been wooping my arse) I know a few of you out there are pretty dern good at 21's and have helped me in the past. Enjoy! Oh, I have more pics, just let me know what you would like to see. Thanks again for taking the time to look and comment!

 

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That's pretty interesting. It could be a one-of-a-kind. Perhaps John @messydesk
can help you.

Chris

 

Why not! I prefer calling it a De-Lamination
I know nothing at all about VAMs so can't answer that

 

Thanks Chris, I was hoping one of you awesome VAMworld peeps would see the post. I too am a member but very new to the VAM disease. I'm also trying to perfect my photography skills.
Paddy, the reason I asked about if they would slab it, was something I read a while back that some TPG don't like to slab coins with loose metal.....that could have just been someone blowing smoke up my butt. Oh, I remember! It was another 21 I posted several months ago that had a strike thru and had some lamination issue as well....anywho, thanks guys for taking the time to have a look.

 

Crazy looking lamination error/delamination!

 

From what I know (talking w/graders at seminars), your coin will be slabbed as a lamination , or major lamination error on the tag. Coins which MAY not be slabbed are those where the lamination may be pulled up or broken off. Split planchet laminations on the edge of $1 gold is an example.

The new inserts with prongs used at some TPGS's make this less of a problem.

 

Have a look at this pic, you'll why I am concerned. The metal is lifting and I can actually see under the gap. I think I could easily pull that section off. Scary, I know!

 

OOPS! So excited I forgot to post the pic

 

IMO, that makes it nicer. Get it in some kind of HARD PLASTIC holder so it does not get harmed.

 

It's in lock down for sure! It's hard to show, but the 1st left star is de-lammed as well, nice little gap separating the upper points.....

 

Contact your grading service of choice to get clear on their rules about laminations. A "normal" slab needs to be able to be sold sight-unseen (in theory) with no surprises. PCGS will not holder it in a normal slab if it is unstable and/or of significant size. Yours is of significant size as far as I'm concerned, and pretty cool. You'd have to pay extra for it to go in a "mint error" slab. I'm not sure about NGC's policy regarding this error. Your best bet for this would probably be ANACS, but I'd contact them first.

As for the VAM number, it looks like it is attributable to the "scribble scratches," but I'd need to see the coin or a better picture to be sure.

 

I know that ICG does not charge for putting lamination errors, clips, off-centers, struck-thrus, etc into their slab. You pay the normal grading fee: Pretty sure $12 (check their web site). If you catch them at a coin show its only $10 and you save the postage to send it in. You would need to pay for a VAM ($7). If you do not plan on selling the thing - that's by far the cheapest and faster alternative. ICG and ANACS coins do not bring the same price as NGC or PCGS.

Sad personal story: I sent twenty Top-100 Morgan's that I cherrypicked in the past to an online auction company and had them graded by ANACS and attributed. Coins like 1900-O/CC, 82-O/S you get the picture. These coins cost me virtually nothing! They graded XF to MS-62 and most were slider Uncs. Had about $700 in them as they cost around $35 @!!! So far one sold for $55 and the rest averaged $29! That's some loss for me and some happy collectors. Sale took five months from the time I gave them the coins too. So much for ANACS and that auction company.

Anyway, good lesson here. Collectors of VAMS prefer to find them on their own...I'll still cherry them for cheap. Collectors prefer high grades as that's where the rarity comes in. Also, I suspect some of the heat is off the VAM bloom. Finally, the book with prices of VAMS is pure BS for the most part. Several R-5 coins with values of $$$ in AU that sell for $28 with one bidder ought to prove my point! The good news is I'll cash my $250 check tomorrow and look for more of this junk. The fun/thrill is in the search. Happy collecting.

 

Geez, that online auction company must have been pitiful. Just last year, I sold a few dozen Morgan VAM's on eBay in NGC, PCGS and the white ANACS slabs, and I made a pretty good profit on all of them even after paying the commission for the consignment.

Chris

 

Thanks guys, I have been collecting and sending coins to both ANACS and ICG for a couple years now. PCGS not so much....I started collecting Morgans and Peace for the past year or so and have been trying to learn as much as I can after catching the VAM virus. Messydesk, I've been following you on the VAMworld message board and have learned a lot. This particular 21 was kind of a unique coin I thought I might share and ask the question about the lam error. Also, I know the 1921 is one of the most challenging of the Morgans to attribute. I've been able to attribute several of them on my own....well, not really on my own...with the help of VAMworld and you guys. I'll try and get some better pics and post them later. Thanks again you guys for all the comments and help. Oh, Insider, I hear ya, I love the thrill of the hunt too!

 

Call anacs first and of they will slab it send it to them. It looks like it's peeled up a bit. I wonder how easy it would pop off. Having both pieces in a pcgs double slab would be KILLER

 

I went through them once, keying on the pair of lines which curve to follow the inner contour of the leg (not many do that), without luck.

 

Is that a crack in the coin, sure looks like it on my phone ? Or is it part of the lamination . Interesting '21 .

 

It would definitely peel/pop off with little effort I'm sure. There is a recessed crack that runs from the neck thru the rim. I send all my Morgans and Peace$ to ANACS, so I'll give them a ping. Dave, Chris, John, any thoughts on the VAM? I do have more pics or I can attempt to take some that are a bit clearer. The coin has a lot of die cracks on both OB and RV and some good scribbles as well. Oh and it's got some pretty hefty clash marks on both sides as well. I've been trying to attribute this baby for a few days. Problem is, my eyes keep wondering to the de-lammed areas...
And again, thanks sooooooo much for everyone's advice and comments! You guys ROCK!

 

Here's another pic of the lam area and crack.

 

I'll see if I can match the cracks or scribbles in a few

If it's that detached already I doubt either big 3 will slab it maybe anacs will though not sure. However if it pops off and you get it into a pcgs double slab you can very well get moon money for it over being slabbed while retained. Seriously. I've seen common lincolns go for hundreds because it was a 2 piece peeled lamination set with both pieces in either a double or 2 seperate slabs. I would assume a peace dollar is no different and maybe more appealing. I'm so jealous right now