TPG Question

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by TJ1952, May 9, 2016.

  1. TJ1952

    TJ1952 Well-Known Member

    S20160510_002.jpg


    However, I listed and paid for this on the submission form.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2016
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  3. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    I've seen these on occasion. You can pay ANACS (and often ICG from what I hear) to put just about anything on the holder as long as you pay.
     
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  4. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    This. I think it's really strange to see that on a label, and much of my collection is specifically focused on late die states with heavy die cracks.

    To me, an attribution on a label is important when it conveys something that impacts the value of the coin that an observer may not know at first glance. Most important is the pedigree, since this information cannot be otherwise seen and may be lost without the slab. Second, you have rarer varieties that affect price or desirability (such as major varieties listed in the red book, even if the price is the same). Even though this information can be seen, not every collector may know how to tell the variety.

    Die cracks, however, are apparent by looking at the coin, are fairly common on classic coins, and most of the time they are either negative or neutral in their impact on the coin's value. Attributing a die crack is much the same as paying for a TPG to attribute a weak strike. It's sometimes important for determining a variety, but it's not something you want to point out on a slab.

    For the nickel above, I can't see anyone paying a premium for the die crack attribution, but I can see it turning off some buyers. Effectively it's paying money for something that hurts the marketability of the coin, which is why you typically do not see people paying for a die crack attribution.
     
  5. TJ1952

    TJ1952 Well-Known Member

    That was my concern. Unless of course, you're a die crack/error collector.

    Not the best pictures but here's the three cent piece in question:

    S20160509_001.jpg S20160509_002.jpg S20160509_003.jpg S20160509_004.jpg S20160509_005.jpg S20160509_006.jpg S20160509_007.jpg
     
  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Die cracks rarely affect a coins grade; however they can lower a coin's eye appeal to some collectors. They can also add an interesting characteristic for others.

    I know that when customers send coins with struck through's, and laminations to ICG they are labeled as such. Coins with die cracks, die chips, etc. are labeled as such when requested. None of these require an extra charge.

    I should think that the other services would also do it for free if it is significant and the graders and finalizer "catch it." With the prices of coins going up, many of us may only be able to afford the "fly-speck" die states that most don't care about now! :D
     
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  7. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    I am a die crack collector.
     
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  8. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Glad you said MOST! I like looking for 1861-O Half dollars with two certain die breaks.:smuggrin:
     
  9. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    I really like die cracks as well..
     
  10. TJ1952

    TJ1952 Well-Known Member

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  11. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    You was robbed!:greedy: ANACS cannot be that hard up. IMO, that should have cost nothing. It would be different if the crack was a popular "collectible variety" (like the "flagpole") and had a variety number to put on the label.

    That's just my thoughts. I don't believe NGC or PCGS would even bother doing this. That's why many use the two second tier TPGS for some coins.
     
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  12. TJ1952

    TJ1952 Well-Known Member

    Yes, I probably should have used NGC or PCGS.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2016
  13. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    Here's a '13-D Type 1 Buffalo I picked up just because of the late die state. It has some really cool die cracks along with a die chip between the F and I of FIVE as well as the metal flow lines out at the buffalo's rear legs.

    1913-D-Buffalo-Nickel-Obverse-#2.jpg 1913-D-Buffalo-Nickel-Reverse-#2.jpg Die-State-Detail.jpg
     
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  14. TJ1952

    TJ1952 Well-Known Member

    Wow! That is brilliant. That's what I'm talking about! Is it slabbed and labeled as such?
     
  15. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    No, it's raw and just arrived a couple of days ago. If I do get it graded, I wouldn't pay to have "Die Crack" put on the label. The die cracks are pretty obvious on this one.
     
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  16. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I like DC's too. This is an excellent case where die cracks can help authenticate a very worn 13-D Type 1.
     
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  17. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    This is my favorite example of die cracks in my collection. 1836 B-1 capped bust quarter in terminal die state. The reverse of the coin shows extreme weakness of strike due to the opposing shattered obverse die.

    s-l1600 (2).jpg s-l1600.jpg s-l1600 (1).jpg
     
  18. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Love it! And properly graded, too! Terminal die state coins often don't get graded accurately due to the crumbling dies creating a softer strike.
     
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  19. World Colonial

    World Colonial Active Member

    Its ultimately a personal preference. I presume some like it but most consider it what it is, an eyesore and a striking defect.
     
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  20. beef1020

    beef1020 Junior Member

    I agree in general and I think it speaks to what kind of collection someone is putting together. For a general type set to show off the coin, early die state with perfect dies are generally more sought after.

    But for those who collect a series and really want to study the minting process, collecting by variety and die state can offer a lot of appeal. I know it did for large cents for me. It just depends on the collecting goals of the individual, but I have a sense that for most series the demand is for quality, perfect coins, and late die state coins struck from worn or cracked dies hurt their appeal.
     
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  21. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    I agree with the grade as well. The coin still has good luster and the traditional high points that are unaffected by the irregular strike are only lightly worn. NGC is very well versed in grading the varieties of this series. I've seen examples of other weakly struck varieties in this series that are also clearly AU residing in PCGS VF35 slabs :rolleyes:.
     
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