overstrike, brockage, die clash, or what - I need some help

An interesting coin arrived today. From Kunker's web page, I could see what looked like an over-strike. In hand I am not sure what I have. It could be an over-strike from an earlier issue or a double strike of this coin. From the picture, I thought it might be a die clash, but I do not see it that way in hand. Look at the pics and let me know what you think.


I can not tell what I see from 9 to 12 on the edge of the obverse. There is an arc of impressions in the face also.

There is definitely a second row of border dots from 1 - 2. The lighter features at 4 are higher than the darker spots. Could this be from the tips of the helmet wings? Parts of the reverse have unusual step changes in height of the features (chest of left rider). It looks a bit like it could be a flip over double strike.

Roman Republican Denarius
Mint Rome Crawford says Rome; Grueber says Central Italy; Sydenham says Rome and other
Issued by C.PLVTI, Caius Plutius, moneyer
Mint Date 121 BC
Weight 3.92, mine
I found lots more than 38 examples, but stopped writing and averaged the numbers.
Weight - max 3.94 grams
Weight - min 3.24
Weight - avg 3.82
Weight - st dev 0.130
Number 38
Diameter - max 19.2 mm
Diameter - min 18.3
Diameter - max 19.9
Diameter - min 17.0
Diameter - avg 18.1
Diameter - st dev 0.72
Metal AR
Serrated N
Cr 278 / 1
BMCRR Itly 454 - 460
Sear: #, VF, EF 153
Bab Plutia 1
CRR 410 / 414 based on helmet style
CRI
NMWar 451 451 - 455
NMCr
Orientation 11
Orientation
Purchased from
Kunker
Purchase date 4/5/2016
Price
Currency Euro
Excahange rate
Grade gVF
Grade VF
Centering well centered
Strike good strike, over another coin? Flip-over double strike?
Flan flaws double strike
Style Sydenham says that those with helmet style E3 and other characteristics of the mint in Rome are rare -> #410. He says #414 has helmet style F1.
Patination light toning
Damage none
Obverse Roma
Reverse Dioscuri
Obverse Helmeted head of Roma R, behind X
Reverse Dioscuri dharging R, holding spears, below C.PLUTI, on partial tablet ROMA. Crawford notes the late use of this form of L.
Obverse dies 120
Reverse dies 150

Sydenham calls some of these from Rome based on helmet style.

 

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I think the feature at 4 is from an overstrike on the same type of coin, it looks like two horse hooves and the beginning of a second pair of hooves (the four rear hooves that are touching the ground).

 

The line that looks like the impression of a wet hair in the face, isn't that a die break?

 

I would guess overstrike. But I have no idea if it is the same coin die or another. It's definitely an interesting specimen.

 

Exactly my view. Perhaps staring at the coin for hours will result in an 'ahaa' moment and the minor marks will be clear. Perhaps not. My first impression is a double strike from the same dies but that is somewhere between a hunch and a guess and far short of an opinion.

 

It does suggest a 'double strike' but that's just a 100% guess on my part....

Your interest and determination to discover the 'truth' is incredible---and I really like that denarius as well---whatever it may be.

 

Sweet coin ...

I've learned that Doug's opinions should always be given heavy-weight ... but if I stared at it for hours and spun that coin around, I'm betting that Mikey-Z is the winner (I'm betting that a double-strike is the correct answer)

... oh, but once again I've already given-up on this hunt ...

SQUIRREL!!

 

I don't know about you folks but, on the very large image of the obverse at 9:00 it looks like silver has pealed away and there is a brown piece showing. If the coin has a medal turn, you can see a brown spot on the reverse at 9:00 as well. I'm suggesting it could be a fouree. rrdenarius mentions that as well.

Of course, its hard to tell from a photo and better in hand. Anyone else have any thoughts or comments? If it is, it is still a very nice piece to have. Fouree's are quite nifty in their own right.

 

I guess I'm kinda dense, but I don't see it as a fouree. The areas you are alluding to could just as easily be something else altogether. You are right. Fouree's are collectible in their own right, but, once again, I don't see the fouree.

 

I printed the coin pictures a couple of times and rotated the obverse and reverse around the obverse and reverse. If the coin is an overstrike, both reverses were reasonably centered. If you rotate the wings on Roma's helmet on the obverse to near I in the name, there is a near match. It is not visable in the photos, but a triangle like the one next to the helmet wing is next to the wing ends. If you have a good imagination, and ignore the shape of the X, near the nose of the horse could be an X. It is in about the right place.
For now I am guessing a flip over double strike.
Still open to more review.

 

Eyes on are always best. I noticed the disscolouration in the large image which does have a more yellow hue. Cool coin however you view it.