Every wonder how much money is made selling money?

THAT is big business.

496 Million Euros in the last 365 days..........and a third of that goes to buyer/seller fees.

 

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Eh...it's only money.

 

[rimshot]

Good one

Yeah, 4to2... that's a ton of money!

Naive, but I was surprised when I learned that the auction houses take fees from both the buyer and the seller.

 

I'm WELL aware of that fact, TIF, having sold about 15 coins in the past year with 10 more coming up in CNG 102. FYI, CNG will charge me seller's fees, based on PR's, as follows:
$1,000 or more: $10%
Less than $1,000: 15%
with a minimum charge of $60 per lot.
The moral: Don't buy it unless you plan to keep it!

 

Hi ,I agree. but if you have to have it...price is irrelevant, and the coin or currency face value or market value becomes nonsensical. after all its just money...

 

This is the big advice. Every sale we see coins estimated at $100 which start at $60 so a seller stands to make how much? I'm sure we all think our coins will be the ones that bring several times estimate. Some of us are right. Some of us will be honest enough to realize that our coins were not going to qualify us for a glossy catalog with our name on the cover. If you want to give your coins away and want an option other than the auctions, I suspect there are a few people here who might want some of them. I wish I knew which would be interested and which would be offended by my trash.

 

So if ever you wanted to sell your collection, you're unlikely to see your money again - unless:

(1) Your coins have appreciated above the 10%-15% sellers fee

or

(2) You can sell your coins directly yourself, and have the same access to the market that a major auction house does.

Why then, do some dealers market their coins as investments that will appreciate? An example from my country is here:
http://www.monetariumadelaide.com.au/research.html

Are there any circumstances where you can reliably expect return on investment?

 

If you are rich enough to own million dollar plus US rarities, then you are probably assured some kind of return. 1913 Liberty nickels and 1804 dollars don't generally go down in price.

 

It's easy to buy coins that make a profit. Just use my simple equation...

 

you missed a + on line 42

 

Back when i was more entrepreneurial i used to search eBay coins for the terms "unknown" and "unidentified". Occasionally I'd find some real gems - on one occasion i found a William III crown worth several hundred. I'd then re-sell the coins, correctly identified, and make money. That's one way to do it.

 

This is seizure-inducing...

 

SIXBID is but one part of the industry. I am curious as to the total market size and the breakdown by classes of coinage.

 

I for one, would love to own a Doug Smith coin, maybe one day if you sell some i'll have a shot at owning one.

 

Those who wish to sell coins to you will tell you that prices have gone up and can point to many examples. However, that is with the benefit of hindsight and selection of outliers. I have an extensive library with old (1970s and more recent) catalogs of both minor and major firms. I have files of published ancient-coin-investment advice. The vast majority of ancient coins have not beat inflation and certainly not enough to overcome a buyer's fee, seller's fee, and shipping expenses.

It is easy to make an investment category look good. Consider an investment firm which asserts that 80% of their mutual funds beat the market ten-year average. Easy! Start with 20 funds ten years ago, have four beat the market, and be sure to fold 15 of the other lousy ones before they get to 10 years old. So, among the five that actually still exist to have a ten-year record, four of five beat the market. 80%. (Don't mention the other fifteen funds that your firm no longer has.)

Ditto for coins, including ancient coins. If you look at what was recommended ten (or thirty) years ago, you will get a different picture than if you look at what you might have bought ten (or thirty) years ago that would have been a good deal (if you could have found it available at the price they assign to it).

One piece of advice that has been offered for decades has some truth, if your goal making money (However, with coins, it should not be). That is, buy top quality. Not all top quality coins go up enough to make money (most don't), but only top quality coins go up enough to make money (some do).

Many times recently I have seen coins in the $1000+ range with citations to old auctions. When I look them up I often find they sell for less now than they did then--sometimes much less. So it is certainly not the case that "expensive" guarantees the quality that goes up in value.

However, the current retail dollar value of the majority of coins that retailed for, say, $40 thirty or twenty or ten years ago is--wait for it--about $40. Factor in inflation and that is a big percentage loss. Plus the dealer won't give you anywhere near $40.

If you think coins have gone up since you started collecting consider the possibility that your standards have gone up and that is the true cause of the "rising prices." The quality of a $X coin bought when you were a beginner is no longer as pleasing as it once was, so you now need to pay, say, $1.5X to get a coin you like. I submit that usually the increase in cost is the cost of higher quality, not a true increase in prices.

On the other hand, a $40 coin can give you a great deal of pleasure for thirty years. The internet has made ancient coins much more available increasing the supply side of the equation. Maybe that effect is fully factored in and in the future coins will track inflation. Maybe they will go up (and, maybe not). Regardless, treat collecting as a hobby to enrich the mind, if not the wallet, and it pays off well enough.

 

Well said @Valentinian !

I consider the money spent on coins gone.

Some hunt animals for fun. Doubt they shoot "investment deer."

 

Nailed it!

 

Perfectly stated. Thank you. For me it is an holistic approach to an investment: Time, research, learning, communicating, pleasure in capturing a coin that enriches my life. If I did not spend the investment here, I certainly would have spent the money on something else over time that I would have nothing to show for it.

 

Sticking with the hunting analogy...ever hear about "investment bass" fishers?

How about the Foodies? "I only eat investment quality foods."

Confusing numismatics with asset management is just weird to me. I don't get it. People want to spend money on something fun hoping to strike it rich.

 

LOL... Jack I LOVE your analogies! Every time I fish for Smallies (Bass), Crappies, Salmon, Perch, etc. I am investing in good times... Beer, braunschweiger sandwiches, sunburn, boat-time, finish up with a fish-fry of the catch... awesome! LOL, YUP, that be INVESTMENT QUALITY FOOD and TIME for me! Just like my Ancients... Investing in GOOD TIMES! Not profits, just hobby FUN!