1876 Trade Dollar - get it cleaned ?

I'm going to try that one. Won't that turn it light brown? The original dark stain occurred because someone dipped the coin and did not neutralize it properly. Looks like much of it came off; but the coin still needs more work.

 

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The rate of toning would be governed by the air turnover in the box; the more breaks you give the coin, the more likely it will be to rainbow, but far more slowly. I was thinking of just getting a protective patina onto a stripped coin.

I've no clue how to tone a coin quickly, but more than a few ideas about how to tone one "appropriately."

 

As much as I understand and respect your point, come on.... did you see the earlier photos of the coin? You act like the guy just destroyed a century or more of original crust on a stellar example of an incredibly rare coin. While certainly entitled to your opinion, the simple fact is he did no such thing, and there are plenty of these to go around, especially in less than ideal conditions.

As an example, we can't and shouldn't save every old building, especially ones of little significance and that have been heavily altered from their original state, but there certainly are ones deserving, and the same is true with coins. The OP started with a very rough looking fairly common coin that was essentially the bones of what it once was, and improved upon it to his own liking. Should all ratty old cars be kept just as they are today no matter how much damage they've endured over the years, or is it okay for people to "work" on, turning them into something that they will enjoy? Sure, tearing down the garage-kept perfect 100% original survivor would be appalling, but not the one sitting behind Farmer Joe's barn rotting into the ground. If you feel the need to save such coins as they presently are, by all means do so, but just don't expect everyone else to feel or do the same, or assume that if they feel differently than you they must be idiots or uneducated. If there was no genuine harm, there also, rightfully, should be no foul as well.

 

So you are saying that if I start a test in a day or two using a freshly dipped Morgan dollar in that large match box it may turn rainbow with enough time rather than brown? Have you ever done this? Give me a hint about how often I should open the box to turn the air. Would an empty wood cigar box work also.

 

Actually, (er...IMHO) any knowledgeable person could easily "finish off" this coin and get it straight graded once the fields were toned down AS LONG AS it was not improperly cleaned in the first place and I see no evidence of that in the photos. Right now, it's still slightly stained (very easy to fix), too bright (very easy to fix - right SD) and has some black spots in the recesses (that will take a little work.

 

Insider - I actually expected you, or someone like-minded, to "jump" on my previous post. I certainly appreciate your opinion. All subjects have more than one opinion, and this topic is not an exception. I do have just a couple of points that I would have you consider:

1. I don't speak for SuperDave. I spoke about his recommendations (which I support).

2. In your 2nd paragraph, you offer "some hard truths." The next words you write are much more honest, when you add IMO (In My Opinion). That is what you offer. NOT truth, but opinion. Your opinion, to be exact. I have offered nothing more, or less than you, my opinion.

That's one of the reasons that forums of all types, allow for differences of opinion. You're are WRONG (again) when you say that the coin "cannot be hurt." To make such a statement is ridiculous, and could encourage an inexperienced collector to make mistakes. While it's true the coin, in time, will re-tone, there are still stains on it that will not allow for even toning, and could actually make it look worse. And, here's a final thought (from my keyboard, to your eyes): Shiny is not necessarily better in numismatics. Original and shiny - YES! Not original (like when you make it shiny) NOT SO MUCH. Again I speak from my personal experiences. I don't profess to have all the answers. Most assuredly, neither do you. Perhaps we can both share our opinions and in the process increase our knowledge, and, maybe help someone along the way. Jack

 

QUOTE: "Insider - I actually expected you, or someone like-minded, to "jump" on my previous post. I certainly appreciate your opinion. All subjects have more than one opinion, and this topic is not an exception."

Glad I met your expectations. Answers below.

QUOTE="jackhd, post: 2401208, member: 73897"]1. I don't speak for SuperDave. I spoke about his recommendations (which I support).[/QUOTE]

Of course you don't. SD takes care of himself and all of us quite well! I agree with much of what SD says. Soooooo, If a person has not been playing with coins/chemicals/and methods for a very long time; or a very short time with proper, informed, and experience instruction they should not touch their coins! I learn new things every week. Going to get me an old cigar box and some matches.


2. In your 2nd paragraph, you offer "some hard truths." The next words you write are much more honest, when you add IMO (In My Opinion). That is what you offer. NOT truth, but opinion Actually, it is called and experienced opinion. Your opinion, to be exact. Yes, my experienced opinion. I have offered nothing more, or less than you, my opinion. Your opinion is important and very many people share it. I don't; yet it is nice to chat. I hope I can get you over to my side. It may not seem so but my mind is not closed and there are far more experienced people than myself who I learn from.

IMO, opinions suck unless they can be backed up by experiment. Example: Many have the opinion that coins are ruined if they are dipped. That's an opinion. Most of those making a claim like that have never learned anything about cleaning coins - YES, I SAID CLEANING - properly. I judge opinions by the history/experience/truth of the person making them. Let me get off the subject for a second and relate something I heard from "the horses mouth." When ANACS was started in the 1970's. They relied on the OPINIONS of many big time dealers concerning the authenticity of coins. Guess what? After about a year, they dropped 70% of the consultants because their OPINIONS did not matter. Read between the lines. That's enough about opinions except for this. Go on any Internet forum look on any topic and in two minutes you'll read something like this from a member: I don't know anything about this but IMO....

That's one of the reasons that forums of all types, allow for differences of opinion. You're are WRONG (again) when you say that the coin "cannot be hurt." Actually, the coin WAS already hurt. It is rapidly improving and perhaps we'll take a look at it when it is finished.

To make such a statement is ridiculous, and could encourage an inexperienced collector to make mistakes. As I said before, the coin is no longer original. It is an excellent teaching piece as there is so much to do using different methods. As I said, there are plenty of numismatists who can turn that coin into an object of beauty in a short time as it is not that far gone.

While inexperienced people should not touch their coins, there seems to be plenty of members here to offer help.

While it's true the coin, in time, will re-tone, there are still stains on it that will not allow for even toning, and could actually make it look worse. IMO, this statement is one of the most misinformed things I have read lately. This is one.

And, here's a final thought (from my keyboard, to your eyes): Shiny is not necessarily better in numismatics. Original and shiny - YES! Not original (like when you make it shiny) NOT SO MUCH. Actually, the coin is FAR from shiny. We just have a different concept of the term "shiny." Again I speak from my personal experiences. I don't profess to have all the answers. Most assuredly, neither do you. True. Never said I did either. Perhaps we can both share our opinions and in the process increase our knowledge, and, maybe help someone along the way. Jack Well said Jack!
jackhd, Today at 9:43 PM Report Best Answer
#46 Like + Quote Reply

 

I'd seldom say this, but this was a bath that needed to happen. That was an ugly coin if it wasn't rubbed on, it helped to preserve the coin.

I don't see any corrosion as a result of the former mess, but I still see some dark carbon spots. You got it out of the bath at the right time. Leave it be or let the environment have its way at it.

 

Thanks every one for the input so far.

I bought this coin and a couple other from a local guy in his garage sale several years ago. This one wasn't badly stained compared to another one.

But I really didn't want to sell it just to have to buy another one with this detail. I love the detail in the coin and the eagle. This is one reason I collect coins, the detail of eagles .. flying eagles, 1925 eagle gold, 1873 eagle gold, modern silver eagles, 1918 Illinois comm and this trade dollar as a few examples.

And yes, I don't want to make it worthless. But it has value for me as stated above. But it certainly looked ugly and I was sick of looking at it like it was. I had read about the do's and don'ts online, SDs link, but there's a lot of conflicting information, thus the reason I asked here about it.

I'm not a chemist, nor a knowledgeable silver expert, coin expert, etc. I read all the comments and threads, compared it to other stuff on the interwebs. Took advice from other people, etc. and after careful diliberation figured .. why not? I can't make it look worse than it is if I'm careful and the plan is good and makes sense.

Yes there are still spots on it which are much more noticeable to me now that the BIG ugly spot is gone. I'll take better pics when I get a chance to get the white balance to match the former pics instead of my iPhone.

But wow, I don't cringe every time I look at it now.

and a friend of mine would have gladly made it into a ring thus really affecting it's value. lol

 

There are too many adjustable parameters in anything chemical that keep us from saying too much with certainty (that should cover my rear), that is why experimentation becomes so important. Chemists are just as good as anyone at hind-sight.

 

Re Coin World article by Susan M.

She is a respected conservation specialist. She writes columns for numismatic publications. I have taken one of her mini seminars on conservation. NOW THE HAMMER! For once This is not directed to any member of CT. IMO:

I cannot refute much of this article as it is basically correct. I read it when it was first published. However, from personal experience and intimate contact with numismatic conservation specialists it is a shame no one has the .....to refute their conclusion. I assure you that NO ONE except "theorists that attend conferences" runs a dipped coin under water for an hour

What do you think caused the brown stain on the Trade $ ...Dah? Read the article, they tell us.



Silver coins that are conserved (cleaned) by anyone who knows what they are doing DO NOT turn brown nor are they harmed (except in the eyes of nut-jobs who believe if you hold a coin by its edge w/o gloves you have destroyed it forever). Read the article

@Kentucky offers great insight for you as he is a chemist.

 

I don't think we are allowed to do that in CA

 

Inarguable words, and it occurs to me that if I'm constantly outraged it will never mean anything when I'm outraged.

In this case, the fact that dip worked kinda proved its' necessity - many different types of "encrusted crud" resist the stuff and lead to huge disappointment when you take that step only to find out the chemical was the wrong choice of technique. And the coin does look better.

 

That works for me too.

 

got around to taking some pics. Next time I'll remove the ambient light from the equation.
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