1909 VDB issues in dies or doubling? both sides

After reading My Alan Herbert error book again it really seems to fit into one of 2 in collar double strike scenarios.
which explains allot of whats going on with this coin even the double VDB. seems everything smashes/rotates the same direction on both sides of the coin

 

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OK, I'm getting dizzier by the minute.

A double struck coin fully in collar for both strikes usually all but obliterates the previous strike. And the second strike is more or less "full" - you expect normal stroke weights, full sized letters, not the thin slices of stroke seen here. If the strike is strong enough to raise a letter to full height, it's strong enough to strike the whole width. How you going to strike only half the stroke of a letter?

Then we have the VDB, which looks very_much_like what I'd expect of a coin double struck in the collar, with a little rotation between the two. The first strike, underlying, is almost completely gone and the second strike is fully developed.

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

I was waiting for you SD. This one is a touch above my pay grade

I hope he can get better pics up and MikeD chimes in.

 

I know very perplexing.. Let me get the one definition in the book I was thinking this matched.

 

I am going to work on some better pics. I have put up some deper in the thread but not sure they help.

SDave gave me some pointers, so I hope I can get better pics to assist with the head scratching

 

If you have the right equipment, and that can be as little as a good smartphone camera, dave can turn you into Ansel freaking Adams

 

Hs

Ha-ha! Then I have no reason not to make better pics here shortly..

 

Rotated over center I believe, not at the house yet to pull out the book.

 

Is it possible to have both on a coin?
What about the inner thin rim ?

 

Here is where you have to sit down and work through the strike process in your head, what the press and the die are doing during the milliseconds while this is happening. Then you sit back and scratch your head, like me.

 

Hahaha... Yes, and being such a newbie at this dynamic I'm going to be bald with all the scratching

 

If you have Herbert's 7th addition error book page 242.
Close center double strike
And
Rotated second strike over centered first strike.

 

Stman, did you mean to post? I don't see anything but my quotr

 

This would appear to be an in-collar double strike.

 

Thanks Mike!
Thats seems to be one of the leading thoughts.. Does the thin extra inner rim help lead to this conclusion?

 

Hypothetically, if this is the case what or how would one evaluate the value?

 

The spread is too great for machine doubling and the sharp, intermittent penetration of first-strike details through the second strike is fully compatible with a double strike with slight rotation of the coin between strikes. The business with the rim is not particularly important to this diagnosis. Value should be several hundred dollars, I would think.

 

Thanks for your input!
I have submitted to Ken Potter. Interested to get his take also.

 

Awesome news for you from the big man!