How to dip copper coins?

EASY ANSWER: DON'T PLAY WITH COPPER COINS. Except for removing residue, glue, dirt, crud, PVC, etc. with some commonly recommended chemicals that virtually anyone can learn to do with a little practice. 98% of the people who "chemically dip" copper coins RUIN THEM. You can find proof of this statement in this thread.

IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. EVEN with Proof IHC! Great color and eye appeal raise grades...But I don't do it - now I'll shut up.

 

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Like I said, many people claim that it happens all of the time, but nobody ever demonstrates it. Show it or stop claiming it. This is not directed just at you @Insider but to everyone that makes this claim. If it happens so often, why is it that nobody will show the coin before and after?

 

I think it does happen and there probably are some people that have had reasonable success with it, but in my opinion the only way it is happening all the time is if you include all the unsuccessful attempts.

 

Just leave those coins alone!

 

so i hear it happens everytime but it is a closely guarded secret certainly isnt any material out in the public domain.

i am not asking for advice on whether i should dip copper or not. i am asking if there is a way it can be done and if it can be done will anyone share that infomation. Thanks.

 

We can't even settle on a definition of "dip," for cryin' out loud.

If we stipulate the definition of "dip" to involve the use of thiourea or a similar chemical to strip the coin's surfaces, then yes, it's probably possible to strip a coin and restore it to a look which would pass muster with 95% of collectors. If you start with a Mint State coin having unmarred surfaces whose patina is perfectly even, so that the stripped surfaces are themselves perfectly even. No variance in patina pre-stripping, no crud interrupting the patina process so that some areas "aged" to a different degree than others. No circulation wear having altered the microscopic character of the surface in some areas more than others.

In other words, you could probably do it if you did it to a coin which didn't need it in the first place. The biggest problem is not stripping the surfaces. The real problem is creating a realistic color afterward.

The only appropriate application for such a process, then, is in turning a Brown coin back to Red, and stripping it is not the way to approach that problem.

 

Here is the problem: As I wrote before, I have seen a process that turned a red-brown IHC into red after two tries. I KNOW WHAT RED UNC INDIANS LOOK LIKE. Some posters around here are probably in their 80's. Red Indians were "chump change" in the old days (way before coin doctors). The electrolytic process I saw then is probably "cave-man stuff" now. Nevertheless, it was simple chemistry. There is enough info out there that with research, coins, equipment , time and experimentation anyone can probably do it. One dealer I know learned how to doctor proof IHC coins (in two months and got them slabbed at a huge profit using very little LOW TECH stuff in his coin shop bathroom! The coins are slabbed now while he does others. Now, I'll ask you to consider two things. Why in the world would he share his method with you? Did you burn the midnight oil? Did you contribute anything? Does anyone around here care about you or your challenge? The answer comes easy (I'm not the dealer)

And now the philosophical question that has probably been discussed here many, many times before I ever heard of CT: What's the harm? If someone can restore/improve the eye appeal & value of a coin in such a way that professional dealers like it/cannot detect anything unnatural/and will fight each other to by it - BINGO. Now everyone is happy. The small-time dealer is now a rapidly getting rich, new "coin doctor". He's happy. The grading service is getting nice coins to grade. They're happy. The sellers are happy and the "registry set" collectors/investors are happy. The world of numismatics keeps turning and no one cares about philosophy. So "suckers" like all of us and talk or write our heads off and nothing will change.

Here is another one while you are at it. In our lifetime we have seen virtually undetectable counterfeits. Would you like to hold a beautiful 1796 dollar that was so nice looking it was slabbed or auctioned for a few thousand dollars. Would you pay $185 to fill a type set hole? No brainer... We all seek the genuine example - THAT'S ONE REASON THERE IS A MARKET FOR FAKES. Perhaps you should challenge them to show you how they do things.

It can be done. The coin will turn PINK. Now the "trick" is to make it LOOK natural again - in days or weeks NOT YEARS. The answer is in books. In fact, I just read one members post a few days ago that revealed one method that actually works. And sorry, I don't think anyone will tell you for the same reasons above. They make money doing it, it took research and experimentation, and you did not help.

PS There is a selfish reason I need/try to learn about the things the "coin doctors" do. That said, I try them out (not the Proof IHC as yet!) to verify and learn but I don't do it to sell coins.

 

Edit.

EXCELLENT ANSWER SuperDave!!

 

Let me draw an analogy here.

I'm a rabid fan of coin photography, bent on spreading the Gospel of cheap imaging equipment and technique. Cameras capable of professional-level images are now available for less than $100 - I just paid $84 for one - and appropriate lenses can be had for $25. It's cheap.

If you're willing to do the legwork of learning about photography, and willing to adopt the precision of technique required to get images right every time. But, for some reason, there are people who can't or won't learn these techniques, and somehow are never able to produce quality images with the same equipment others have no problem with. No idea why.

The same goes for conservation technique. Yes, there's stuff that works, but there will always be people who cannot/will not learn how to do it right, even down to choosing the right coin to conserve. They just don't want to expend the effort, and refuse to recognize the ruleset required.

If I teach you how to shoot coins and you still can't get it right, all that happens is you're disappointed and your equipment gets underutilized. If I teach you to conserve coins and you still can't get it right, valuable coins are ruined forever.

None of this fits the definition of "instant gratification." You get what you invest, just like any other aspect of numismatics. And I'm still primarily a "Let Me Google That For You" search engine in numismatic fora, because people are unwilling to go find the answers themselves. It doesn't encourage me in the direction of offering downright dangerous information, if the audience is unwilling to do their own due diligence.

You can't spoon-feed conservation. And you can't create sound judgement where none exists.

 

Great post, there, SD, but I couldn't avoid seeing the irony in Doug's closed mouth on the subject juxtaposed against his tagline on his posts. Apparently it needs to be changed to "only some knowledge ..... share it if you feel like it and somebody'll pay you for it". Eh?

 

I dunno - would you still be willing to teach people to drive if you knew a quarter of them would not stop for red lights?

 

leave it alone don't clean them

 

I can spot a dipped copper from across the street. Nice mud-pink is not in season anymore.

 

I am not asking anyone to show me how to do it, I am simply challenging someone to show me some before and after images IF IT HAPPENS SO OFTEN.

Your statement: "Did you contribute anything? Does anyone around here care about you?" Is extremely rude, though I'm not surprised at all with it coming from you.

 

If they paid me my fee $-,--- ; Yes, in a heartbeat.

 

Best answer and very true.

 

So can anyone else who has a trickle of knowledge! What most can't spot is a PROPERLY RESTORED pink copper coin. That includes YOU and ME! Same goes for expertly artificially toned coins because THEY LOOK NATURAL!

Anyone can run with a football but they are no ____________. Fill in the blank for your favorite Hall of Fame player.Some can play

 

For me, you can stop after the word "drive". Nothing after it matters. The answer is no. Too old, too frail, too unwilling to leave yet.

 

I have five Lincoln cents that I bought from two dealers. I took them, among others, to a very experienced copper expert. He immediately set them aside as cleaned. If it is just a matter of restoring the color, then four of these could be returned to the pool of coins available for serious collectors. So if there are ways to optimize the faithfulness of the coin, is it wrong not to do it? (Now I make sure I can see dirt before I buy!)