3RD party Graders.

Just curious. If I sent a coin to a 3rd party grader and it was a VAM would the grader note this on the slab even if I did not specify varieties? Or how about DD issues if not requested for authenticity, would they note the error?

Dave

 

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Only in a very few cases - each TPG (I think) lists the few varieties that they'd "automatically" attribute. They have monetized the attribution process these days, and would much rather make you pay. None of them automatically designate VAMs, although I bet if you sent ANACS a valuable-enough one they might intercede on your behalf.

 

ANACS is the only (legitimate) TPG that will attribute all VAM's, but I doubt that they would attribute them before notifying you if there was an extra charge.

Chris

 

Absolute trash! I'm very disappointed to read your post. You can try to cover this misinformed opinion with the word "legitimate" but informed numismatists know that ICG does all VAMs and I don't regard SEGS as a "fly-by-night" service either.

Question? Have you ever tried ICG ? If you would have, you probably would feel differently and posted correct information. And I'm sure you are aware of the fact that ANACS and ICG were the ONLY major services that would attribute ALL VARIETIES IN ALL COIN SERIES decades before NGC and PCGS felt their graders were QUALIFIED ENOUGH to expand their programs! Those two services that claimed to be the "best" were dragged kicking and screaming into the variety field and "details" grading by their two less esteemed counterparts!

BTW, I know for a fact that very often ICG will put a variety attribution on coins of ALL SERIES including VAMS whether requested/paid for or not. And you of all posters should know that Randy Campbell is no novice when it comes to VAMS.

 

I believe the automatics are ones in the CPG. For instance messy sent in a shifted eagle in his last bulk sub and it automatically came back as a "double die reverse" on the label with no mention of vam# though

 

Insider, the only problem with that is ICG is popularly regarded as near-third-world by the collecting community. You can't get a decent price from an ICG coin unless the buyer is good enough to completely ignore the slab and grade the coin, and buyers that good don't need an attribution on the slab. The accuracy of their attribution work - which I don't contend; they're very capable - isn't relevant because the downside of their rep is so significant. The same goes for SEGS. Aside their odd and offensive habit (hopefully they've quit) of calling all D1 1921-P's "Zerbe die" coins, they're known to be quite capable with attribution details on Classic coinage.

I wish it were otherwise, but it would only be "otherwise" if every potential buyer didn't really need the slab anyways. That won't be happening.

On the other hand, the target audience for VAMs holds ANACS in higher regard than any other TPG from an attribution standpoint. I don't know if Randy Campbell is going to be one of the ones assigning new VAMs when Leroy chooses to retire, but we darn sure know John Roberts will be.

The only prerequisite for being a "qualified and capable" attributor is knowing how to attribute. It's a skillset which transcends individual issues, and if you can reliably trust someone to attribute an Early Dollar, you ought to be able to trust them to attribute a Bust Half or a Morgan if sufficient information is available to them.

Maybe so; I make no claim of knowing one way or the other. I try to be as little involved with TPG's as possible.

 

I'll agree with you and understand about "value." I'm into "facts" not opinions. PCGS & NGC bring the money. YOU WILL get an argument with me about ANACS and ICG although with CT members, ANACS is the clear winner. ICG who??

Also John Roberts is probably universally regarded as the Best. (forgive me Mr. Campbell - wherever you are )

 

John Roberts heads the large dollar and vam attribution department at anacs so you're being kind of contradictory no? When it comes to $ anacs doesn't bring near the premium due to... reputation. But, on the other hand, you can be damned sure a vam is attributed correctly... because of Johns reputation.

That's why I and many, many others like Messydesk's sticker. He has all the vam chops of John Roberts and you get the coin in a pcgs or ngc slab. Best of both worlds!

 

Well, part of the reputation ANACS has among VAMmers - the major target audience of Morgans attributed on the slab - is that they're more likely to ignore the "TPG Premium" prejudice against ANACS grades as well. Honestly, I think ANACS is more consistent than anyone else with Morgan grading. I don't care for them with Lincolns, but nobody does Morgans any better.

 

I guess you weren't around the NGC forums when Greg Margulies posted his thread about some of the crazy things that he submitted to ICG just to see how far they would go. I recall posting a link to it here. Maybe you will be able to find it.

Don't get your shorts all bunched up.

Chris

 

Hard not to as all kinds of things were going on in the past - we all have stories. I'm only commenting on the present - today. IMO, some of your post was not true.

BTW, when PCGS started the dealers who graded for them couldn't tell an altered surface from a coconut and that was STILL GOING ON a decade ago (recent past).

You may get an argument on this. They are possibly more consistent than the big two DUE TO the LOW VOLUMN they do in comparison.

I guess we agree. These stickers are tops!

I guess we agree. John is tops!

 

That says something important, right there.

 

Don't you mean Red Book?

 

Brain fart. Correct you are Books

 

Some of my post? What part was that? I used the term "legitimate" to hold them above all of the basement slabbers. So, what is the part that is not true?

Sorry, but I can't accept your whole-hearted endorsement of ICG because I have seen (via the Margulies thread) some of the junk (and I don't mean low quality coins), I mean REAL JUNK that they have authenticated.

Chris

 

Chris, can you post a link to the ct thread you put the Margulies link in?

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1478368

Chris

 

Ditto. An what do you know...it's on an NGC forum and I'll bet you've all seen the NCG counterfeits posted on the PCGS forum.

Every service has a bone to pick. Each of them has pluses and weaknesses and we can start a list right here BUT WHAT FOR?

The customers make the choice. I will defend any of the top four if something is said that is not accurate: Such as ANACS is the only legitimate grading service that does ALL the VAMS.

 

I have several ANACS slabbed wooden nickels - both blue and yellow labels (but from the dates, all were slabbed under Driving Force LLC - current - ownership).

So by your standards ANACS is below ICG?

 

I only read the OP. I think this proves a point. Good for IGC. Outstanding service. IMO, those guys SHOULD HAVE slabbed the wooden nickel! They have Genuine Only holders like all the others and here is a joke for you...ICG slabs counterfeit and altered coins in a yellow label slab.

I was waiting to see over graded junk in their holders. And let's not get into that because examples exist for each service of overgraded coins.
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I'm not going to name drop but on at least one occasion at the FUN show in 2014, I witnessed an NGC grader drop off a submission to ICG because the #1 Grading Service (NGC) did not do them.