How to Tone Coins

A couple observations from The Intersection of Internet and Numismatics (consider this my first establishment of that phrase as prior art pending copyright application):

- If the most capable of experts cannot tell the surfaces are not original, with electronic aid, the surfaces are original.

- Many oxidation processes affecting metals can be chemically reduced.

- The Internet never forgets.

 

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I generally agree with you Doug, and I will here when it comes to circulated coins, but uncirculated coppers are very easy to spot when they have been tampered with.

And knowledge is power. Quote from one of my favorite superheroes.

Corroded? Nope, want to try again?

 

thats right kill the coin industry i always wanted rare coins for bullion

 

most people know that you can get AT done naturally so that it passes TPG certifications why they wont admit to it god only knows

 

Touche.

 

why not open your toning service and do it for free? that will help bring the toned coin market in control too

 

Reminds me of the story of the three baseball umpires. The first says "I call 'em as I see 'em" The second says "I call 'em as they are" The third one says "They ain't nuthin' till I call 'em". If you didn't clean it (harshly or tenderly) and you can't tell, it ain't been cleaned.

 

NOTE This was written 30min ago but was never finished due to phone call. I'm going to finish my thoughts here before reading the new posts!

@Colonialjohn

I agree with your comment; however HARSHLY cleaned coins will ALWAYS appear harshly cleaned if the HARSH cleaning was mechanical in nature. In that case, even when an "acceptable" color is restored, the coin will still show evidence of improper cleaning. In which case more surface material needs to be removed to hide it -ugh, not good.
In cases where a coin has been chemically harshly cleaned (up to etching), the evidence can be hidden when the coin is restored to the correct color.

 

This is a great topic. But my response is always the same. The BEST way to tone a coin? Don't.
If you want to play around and tone low value coins to experiment and see what kind of results you can get....that's your business. But I know 200 years from now there will still be collectors who want original coins. Toning, cleaning, or doing anything at all to them is essentially robbing future generations of original coins. If you're going to screw with coins, at least make sure they're already cleaned/screwed up. I think we all owe our hobby at least that much.

 

I would need to "sign" all my work! Remember, Just because I learned how to do lots of things (have perfected copper but still working on silver) I run experiments to be able to detect AT. I cannot detect my copper "restorations." Everything I know/do about copper is in books if you look.

Silver is their also but talking with coin doctors is faster. I could tell some funny methods and stories about ruined experiments! How about the time I cooked a commemorative half in the oven by mistake? .

 

Nope, you are free to ignore the raised black corrosion at 7 o'clock on the reverse...that's what makes the world go around.

 

And I do not tone coins to pass them as genuine or fool people. I'm not good enough with silver but I'm half-good at spotting AT. Besides, if I personally think it is natural and it is not, I'M THE IGNORANT ONE

 

Ahhhh.... It's not corroded no matter how may times you want to say it is. The problem with the coin is that it has been cleaned (and I would say properly since I don't see any signs of cleaning other than the color) and retoned. This coin was probably very nice before someone who's work is "undetectable" decided to mess with it. The difference between a nice original MS-64 BR and a MS details is pretty high.

 

Note to those interested in expanding their knowledge: Color is the MAIN indication of IMPROPER CLEANING ON ALL COPPER COINS. COLOR is also a very important aspect of detecting cleaning on other coinage metals.

This UGLY large cent is "Detectable" FROM ACROSS THE STREET ON A MOONLESS NIGHT! And IMHO , so its the corrosion I pointed out on the reverse.

Care to let us all know what the TPGS said about it? Perhaps UNC DETAILS IMPROPERLY CLEANED?

 

Insider - you make a good point. In terms of that NJ Copper it was harshly cleaned - chemically - not mechanically - as the surfaces were free of hairlines or more accurately circular hairlines under a loop. So its restoration was a good thing but even most experts can tell that it was restored (X) years ago but semi-olive brown is always better than ORANGE. I normally only clean copper when its just a green oxide on the surface or is a superficial green coating if you will. Any other copper oxide color (no point in getting into various colors of copper oxides) and/or if its deep its futile - of course - IMO). Cleaning copper takes some skill. Some experts I talk to at EAC do of course favor xylol but I developed a cleaner based on the original Coin Care - but I care not expound further. It works pretty good and had no complaints yet.
Some commenters have said its not that effective or strong - but Insider you know and I know how SENSITIVE a copper surface is in Mint State. The cleaner was made strong enough as not to effect the original mint red pieces and not effect the cartwheel effect. So its potency was limited ... <VVBG>.

JPL

 

@Colonialjohn

Thanks for the info. I've never had copper go olive but light olive and brown should look real pretty. To the best of my knowledge, I have never used xylol unless it is mixed in with other chemicals in certain products. @Kentucky what can you add?

And...I'm not talking about "cleaning" (removal of contamination) here but restoring "natural color" over a relatively short time without using "Deller's" which can often be a very problematic solution except on corroded junk. Sorry, corroded 18th century copper coins are NOT junk!

 

I didn't send it to a TPG, I can clearly see it with my two own eyes and don't care to spend money for a details slab. And for the last time, there is no corrosion on the coin, what you keep insisting is corrosion is a die chip.

 

Interesting, so a void in the die left the raised mark on the coin. That makes sense. However, I was taught that RAISED black "chips" on copper surfaces were called CORROSION. Care to post a micrograph of the "chip" area so I can change my opinion and learn something new?

 

I'm not aware of any coin besides Zincoln cents (or any metal for that matter besides steel) that corrodes outwardly to show a raised surface. I would suspect that the reason that it is slightly darker is because the surface has a slightly different surface texture because it was not fully struck in that section as a result of the void in the die. I will try to get an image of the area so that you can see it better but my photograph skills really suck. It is quite clearly not corrosion through a loupe though. This is more usual example of surface corrosion; notice how it ate away at the coin, not caused the surface to raise.