Roma Numismatics Auction April 7th

I dont think its poor etiquette myself. Honestly, for collectors who are looking for specific items, they already know about them. I dont think our small discussions will create any serious demand for any coins in question. Anyway, as to the Roma auction I am not bidding this time. Nice coins, many I am looking for personally and for resale, but the prices are too high, even considering the exchange rate. This is one I want for myself, but the starting price is well above retail:

http://romanumismatics.com/auction/lot/0753/

 

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I think that is something I see often with Roma auctions. I know I have not bothered even bidding sometimes because the reserve is fully valued or more.

While I think the absurdly low estimates that many auctions use are somewhat silly, it does encourage bidding which Roma's high reserve does not.

 

My apologies for the confusion

 

I strongly agree with TIF for the reasons she stated well. Each of us might have a completely different idea which coins are worth a bid and which are not. I enjoy seeing discussions of sales after closing but the only person that benefits from the discussion of active sales is the seller. I'm not sure I even approve of pointing out (as I did last week when I mentioned CNG's book sale) that a particular sale was strong in a particular area. There have been a few cases here on CT where someone posted a coin and I later saw another example. This is the place for a private message but not an open advertisement, IMO.

 

Over estimating values is a European concept. They list them at 150% of retail and are happy when they receive one bid. Americans are the opposite, estimate less than half of retail. But the low estimate always gets more bids and end up selling higher in the end.

 

I can only see this concept as sour grapes. Why whine about it? Put your pocket book behind it or just dont bid. That is what an auction is all about. After all, its not like auction houses dont advertise. I have never seen an unadvertised auction ever (though I am sure they exist somewhere). The idea that we should not discuss an upcoming auction or lots therein is just selfish, plan and simple.

 

I wasnt looking at any in that auction... but now I am

 

Have to say I agree with Ken on this one.

 

The auction has some really stunner coins in it, I got my eye on an incuse coin (love that mint technique) plus some Byz coins. All very high-end pieces. I'm allowed ta' drool right?

 

=> said the seller



I totally agree with TIF & Doug (unless you're a seller who is trying to sell his wares in the auction, please refrain from posting the live auction heads-ups)



Side-note => there are several of you fine CoinTalkers who send me private messages about coins ... and I try to return the favour by giving my coin-buds a heads-up whenever I see an example that I think they're gonna like (I personally think that is a better way of assisting our tight lil' group, rather than drawing attention to the masses who lurk and then bid, increasing the competition and the price) ...... but that's just me

 

Coin Talk rules specifically forbid promoting sales of "a business that you own, or the site of a business that you work for, or are affiliated with in any way, that offers items for sale." There are certain specific exceptions but the way I read it you can consign a coin to CNG but can not promote it here. Ardy can't either because he works there. TIF and I could but won't. Sorry, Steve. Thankfully you are not into this for the profit so I don't expect this to come up until your estate sale.

 

I think I am missing something here Doug, I read this as implying Ken is breaking this rule. Was that your intention?

For the record, this issue comes up periodically and I agree with those that see nothing wrong with posting coins in upcoming auctions. This is a public forum made up of ancient coin collectors. To think that we would not discuss upcoming major sales seems like a drastic self-imposed gag...

I am still somewhat active in early American copper, and never came across this attitude from those collectors, so I was quite surprised at the negative response I received from posting a coin I was interested in. The major EAC sales are basically community gatherings which bring everyone together, and generate a lot of chatter/buzz/enthusiasm.

Here, the major sales can't be talked about lest we inadvertently bring attention to our hobby. While I understand this can drive up prices, it's important to keep in mind that attention/buzz/enthusiasm are also required to keep collectors active and pull in the next generation, which is of course who we will all be selling our coins to... I understand it's a double edged sword, but I really don't think this hobby needs to intentionally tamp down interest, I think it's detrimental.

 

If you had read the post above mine by Steve you would have seen where he proposed we publicize our sales

which I pointed out was against CT rules. Instead you chose to make up meanings I did not know about before you mentioned it. Are you telling me that Ken was 'affiliated in some way' to the sale and I accidentally called him on it? I did not know that if he did and it is not my place to enforce CT rules (read them - you will find something else I'm doing wrong); we have moderators for that.

CT has an advertising section where we are allowed to be commercial and a system of private messages where we can discuss with each other things of private interest that (TIF, Steve and I) believe is the appropriate place to discuss such matters rather than advertising them in open forum. There are half a dozen people here who have PMed me asking my opinion of the value of a coin. That is hilarious since there is no one here with a worse basis for having such an opinion since I do not follow the market on investment grade coins. I'll try to limit posts on this site to ancient coins as objects leaving CT discussions of price to the "What's it Worth?" section.

 

No, I have no affiliation with anyone at all. I dont consign coins, so I have no interest in that matter. I do however consign antiquities, but those are beyond the scope of a coin group (and I never advertise them elsewhere anyway). However, it may be that I am breaking the rules by adding my website to my signature. Should I remove that? I have no problems with that.

Still, I see no issue with pointing out an active coin lot in an upcoming sale. After all, many people ask questions constantly about specific coins which are either in an auction or a private sale. There has been no issue with that before. Again, I can only see it as sour grapes. We all want to pay as little as possible (unless one is quite wealthy and has no care with price), that is just natural. Most of us all bid in the same sales and many lots I tried to get pop up here with many congratulations after the fact. Often I think to myself, so THATS who out bid me! There are never any hard feelings either way. Someone simply was willing to pay more than I was. I simply dont get emotional about it.

 

Doug, sincerely, thanks for quoting the post you were referencing, it clarified your previous post. It was a genuine question on my part, hence prefacing it with 'I must be missing something'.

 

I read the CT rules, several times, and do not see that to be the case. I'm talking if you consigned something to say, CNG as a simple CNG customer. I've mentioned a consignment item or 2 before and if I've broken the rules, I'd like to suggest they be more specific because as a native English speaker, I don't read those rules to prohibit that specifically.

Besides, all this talk about rules is one of the reasons I hardly participate over at Forvm anymore and I think that is a sentiment shared by several converts here. I really can't stand the self appointed hall monitoring and suggest we leave it up to the moderators to do that if necessary.

**Edited to include Sponge Bob Hall Monitor illustration:

 

"6 – Signature lines

Signature lines may contain a link to a website which you own or otherwise control, or of your employer."

The rule quoted above seems to me to allow website links like Ken uses but I suppose management could interpret any way they choose. We will all read things the way we want. That's why sporting events have guys in striped shirts.

 

Ken, Doug and whoever => yah, I merely want to pay as little for ancient coins as possible, so I am a huge fan of "not publicizing live auctions"

... however, I also realize that there aren't any rigid rules (THANK GOD), so to each their own (ummm, but please try not to flag any cool animal-coins with stevex6 as the lead-bidder, okay?)

 

This is an interesting thread and while there are reasonable arguments on both sides, I personally find myself mostly in agreement with Doug and TIF. Let me attempt to explain my view a little further.

Suppose Collector #1 notes a particular coin or set of coins in an upcoming auction and starts a thread or posts about his/her interest in those coins. Further assume that this collector is known to be both aggressive and financially comfortable, or maybe he/she announces that "I'm going to win these coins no matter how much I have to spend."

So now Collector #2, who also likes some of the coins, starts thinking "I'm not going to be able to outbid Collector #1 under any circumstances."

There are at least three possible scenarios on auction day:

(1) Collector #2 doesn't even bother to bid, giving Collector #1 one less competitor, and #1 ends up paying less than he/she might have under normal circumstances. This also affects the seller, who is entitled to get whatever price the market will offer at the current time.

(2) Collector #2 decides to spite Collector #1, and bids the coin(s) up to much more than general market availability would dictate that the coins were worth, thus costing #1 more than he/she would have paid.

(3) Collector #2 follows procedure #2 above, and then is surprised when #1 suddenly stops bidding, resulting in Collector #2 being stuck with a (wanted) coin but at a much higher price than his/her budget can afford.

This scenario is not as unlikely as one might think. Now, the free market economists and curmudgeons here will be thinking "Well, Collector #1 or Collector #2 got exactly what they deserved." But is that really the case? The marketplace didn't really act efficiently in this scenario -- it was skewed by possibly unreliable information that might not have been known to other collectors participating in the auction. Inefficient markets produce anomalous and unreliable results, and my personal preference is for all parties to a transaction to have all pertinent information that is generally and publicly available. I don't like manipulated transactions, and I see a high possibility of "gaming" the system through pre-announced intentions, whether or not these intentions are accurate and honest.

 

If I might bid on a coin, you won't hear about it until after I have won it, if I do, and it has arrived in the mail.

I don't want to drive up the interest in a coin by explaining what is attractive about it before the auction, and I don't want to discuss a coin I won that might not actually arrive. Even though the US mail is usually very good, I have had coins from Germany not arrive.