new Sunga coins, help needed

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by chrsmat71, Mar 2, 2016.

  1. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    i recently picked up a small batch of small sunga cast squares. if your not familiar with the sunga empire, it was a post-mauryan empire of the 2nd and 1st centuries BC in modern day northeastern india, bangladesh, nepal.

    i've wanted one of these for a while, but wanted to get one where you could see the symbols clearly. picked up a small lot that had several nice ones, and one i'm not familiar with. here are the common types...

    [​IMG]

    Sunga Empire, AE 1/2 karashapana, 2nd-1 Century BC
    O: elephant above tree and swastika, phosopholipid(?) left, R: hollow cross, three arched hill with crescent, phosophlipid (?) and potted plant (?), 14 mm, 2.5 g, Mitchiner ACW 4348-4352?


    i see these usually listed as a 1/2 karashapana, so i just went with the flow. i'm not sure what some of the symbols are. what i call a "phospholipid" is sometimes called a "bulls head". the the "horns" are usually not pointed the right way, so i'm unconvinced.

    here's a phospholipid (a cell membrane component...totally unknown to ancients...just what i call it until someone tells me better).

    [​IMG]


    here's another, similar, but with a different arrangement and the elephant on railroad tracks.

    [​IMG]

    Sunga Empire, AE 1/2 karashapana, 2nd-1 Century BC
    O: Elephant on rails, tree, swastika, and phospholipid (?) above; R: hollow cross, hill with crescent, potted plant (?), and phospholipid (?), 14 mm, 2.6 g, Mitchiner ACW 4348-4352?

    here's a similar coin, but smalller...is it another denomination or the same?

    [​IMG]

    Sunga Empire, AE unit?, 2nd-1 Century BC
    O: Elephant on rails, tree, swastika, and phospholipid (?) above; R: hollow cross, hill with crescent, potted plant (?), and phospholipid (?), Mitchiner ACW 4348-4352?, 11 mm, 1.2 g

    side by side...

    [​IMG]

    ok, this one has me stumped.....

    [​IMG]

    it's 11 mm and 1.0g. has some of the same elements as the others, plus the "x with balls" the reverse and a....uh....what the heck is that on the obverse? a donkey with a back tumor? a mule/camel hybrid?

    calling all eastern expert for a hand here (or anyone else!), i'd appreciate it!

    @THCoins @dougsmit @Ancientnoob

    feel free to post sunga coins, elephants, unidentifiable animals, or squares square coins!
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
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  3. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    Holy Cannoli, give me a second to take this all in.
     
  4. Aidan_()

    Aidan_() Numismatic Contributor

    Sounds like a job for the Eastern League! :D

    No idea, but they like purty cool. :cool:
     
  5. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    Not Phospholipid. It is Indra-Dhvaja.Durga.[​IMG]
     
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  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Sorry, this whole subject is out of my league. I only have this one bronze which I bought from an Indian dealer on eBay (Narayan) a few years back along with a couple Yaudheyas. Other than Sunga, I have no ID.
    oi3330bb2877.jpg
     
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  7. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    I am really in no place to speak as I only have one Sunga coin.

    SungaC.jpg
     
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  8. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I just have 1 too.

    [​IMG]
    SUNGA DYNASTY (185-75 B.C.)
    Æ ½ KARSHAPANA
    O: Bull, elephant, swastika and staff symbols.
    R: Hill, cross and tree symbols.
    3.1g
    14 x 15mm
    MACW-4348
     
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  9. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    cool coins everyone, i knew there were some of these here at CT.

    thanks AN, you got me barkin' up the right tree. this is a neat page..

    http://coinindia.com/galleries-ujjain3.html

    looks like my unknown animal is probably just a brahmin bull with looks like a donkey and the "x with balls" is an ujjani symbol. looking for a good picture, i found this one DS had posted here...

    [​IMG]

    ...so it looks like what i was calling a "tree" on the obverse is the Indra-dhvaja, which is a type of standard (correct @Ancientnoob ?) and my phosphlipid is a "taurine".

    what the hecks a taurine? does that mean bull head?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2016
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  10. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    Taurine is like a catch all term for Bull and Bull-like/related art work.
     
  11. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    That is a coin of the Satavahana. Thats a whole 'nother bag of chips.

    satakarnis - Copy.jpg
    Satavahanafatboy.jpg
     
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  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

  13. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    yeah...that's all i was finding when google searching! lol!
     
  14. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

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  15. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

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  16. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    Yes they are the same symbol. The two coins are quite far apart chronologically. The Ujjani symbol exists in many, many variations. I do not know if this the intent of the design, but could very well be an evolutionary step in the symbol, or a modification to fit the size. The symbol did evolve in the 1/2 cent AD into the Satavahana dynastic symbol like the ones on these Satakarni elephant coins. You probably have your mint city. :)
    [​IMG]

    The Tree is a usually a Bodi Tree where Buddha obtained enlightenment. Like on this coin from Anuradhapura.
    BoTreeC.jpg

    and the three arched hill you can see it on these guys.
    Isvaradattayr1_opt.jpg
     
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  17. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

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  18. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Always a bit behind in these discussions because of the different time zone.
    The Phospholipid indeed is commonly called taurus symbol. A donkey with a back tumour is likely intended as a bull. The thing with looks as a lamppost, either upright or lying down below the elephant is the triangle-headed standard of Indra, the Indra-Dhvaja.
    Lots of symbolism in these.
     
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  19. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    The three-arched hill is regarded as another Buddhist symbol, a stupa or chaitya:

    [​IMG]
     
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