The Official Morgan Silver Dollar Thread

What are the coins worth ? Isn't it about $35 a coin to get evaluated ?

 

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The 2 new Orleans are precluded from 65 due to the strike and the 86 like I said might but those pics can hide alot

 

You can't guarantee that. In your opinion, they are 65s at the least. In my opinion, they are 64s, with enhanced lighting. You can state your opinion, but guarantee that a coin will grade a specific way? Hardly.

 

Your right. I make no guarantee, which is why I said I pretty much guarantee. My opinion is that they are a minimum 65. By that I mean that I am about 95% sure they would come back from NGC with a MS-65 or higher slab.

As for the strike on both of the O Morgans precluding them from an MS65 grade. Take a look at several of the MS65, MS66 and MS67 Morgan's graded by NGC in those years on Heritage and you will see that the strike on both of these is strong enough to meet their criteria. The 1902-O is the weakest of the two. The 1898-O is pretty well struck in that is has pretty good detail in the eagle's breast feathers and the hair above Liberty's ear.

I have the fortunate upper hand in that I can hold the coins in hand and examine them. The photo's I took were meant to show everything on the coin and not hide anything. Not to mention that on a computer screen the images show a magnified representation of the coin of approximately 10X. I compared these coins to examples that sold on Heritage in NGC plastic. In my opinion they will grade a minimum of MS65.

I am not trying to kick dirt into the pot, just conducting an experiment. I will be sending these to NGC for grading and I will report back what grades they receive. I have formed an opinion as to which coins will receive what grade. I think I will be right, but of course there is a chance I am wrong.

 

Well experiment away then

 

Dream on-- they are not 65s. I have much more experience with Morgan Dollars than do you. The photographs are artificially enhanced so as to show garden variety MS 64 Morgans that are very common dates. The two O mint coins you depict as having superior strikes, are average. The surfaces of all three coins illustrate bag marks, contact marks, and abrasions typical of MS 64 Morgans. The lighting enhances brightness and contrast to make the surfaces look cleaner-- Great Southern does the same trick. If you want to self grade them as MS 65-66 coins, knock yourself out. They are not gem grades.

 

I have the Official ANA Grading Book....can we QUANTIFY all the scuffs and dings and see if it will come in at either 65 or 64 ?

Even that might be splitting it too finely since we're not talking 65 vs. 62 or even 63 but 65 vs. 64.

Only one way to tell: send the coins into PCGS or NGC and let us know when they are back.

 

They are not worth the submission fees.

 

I will buy your MS64 opinionated grades all day long and make a lot of money.

Read my post a little more carefully @Morgandude11, I NEVER stated the strikes on the O Morgan's as being superior!! I said they were strong enough to meet NGC's criteria for MS65 based on images I have seen of MS65 and higher coins in NGC plastic.

As for the images being artificially enhanced? Your dead wrong. I have done nothing to the images except to crop them and resize them. I know much more about photography than you do. The lighting technique I chose reveals everything. Comparing me to Great Southern Coins is offensive. I know what they do to cover the problems. I do not do that, and never will.

I have proven your opinions on my coins wrong before. Both of the coins below came back exactly what I had expected them to be. I'll take you opinion as just that an opinion. You seem to like to think it's law. I'll give you credit in that your ability to grade coins in hand is probably very good. But from photo's online, not so much.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/gtg-1884-cc-gsa-morgan-dollar.273269/

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/opinions-on-this-1882-cc-gsa-morgan.271908/

 

Troll ignored. He thinks that experienced bullion companies sell their high grade gem coins to him at $45 apiece, and the aforementioned companies do not bother cherry picking the better coins themselves? As if any bullion company doesn't know how to grade, and that they do not sell off the better coins at a premium. It would be utterly naive to believe anything else. Also, his photos are juiced by over saturating the light, against an all- black background, for optimum enhancement. I mentioned a large dealer that does the same game with their raw coins.

 

I'm the Troll? Your the one putting words I never typed into my post's...

Your opinions seem to start far more abrasive threads than mine ever have. I have not come out and told someone that their opinion is wrong and mine is right, and continue to tell that person that they are wrong. I don't insult people or their abilities, you have. I'm thinking your the Troll, try to ignore yourself please. I know I am ignoring you now. Congratulations, you're the first person I have ever clicked the ignore button for. That should make you feel like your higher up on the pedestal you see yourself on.

 

My apologies to the rest of the forum members reading this thread. My intentions were not turn this thread the way it has. People like Morgandude11 really get under my skin. I simply wanted to post a few Morgan's I picked up that I thought were nice and were worthy of grading in this thread, simply because it is a Morgan Dollar Thread. I will ignore these people from here on out.

 

Hey, I think you guys can legitimately disagree on what the coins are worth. It's not like you are arguing a 4 or 6 grade difference. It could be a 65 and get graded a 64 or vice-versa. We've all seen the stories about different graders on different days.....

 

He is not legitimately depicting his coins. That is the problem with juiced-- overly bright/ contrasted photos. Dealers do it all too often.

 

Thank you @GoldFinger1969.

I'm not offended by his thinking the grades are MS64, I can let that go. But when he starts to make statements that I juice my images and compares me to Great Southern Coins on eBay, I take that very seriously. I have a business in imaging coins. I do not juice anything to look better than it does in hand. So I will defend myself when insulted and my work is being libeled.

 

Jtlee, I don't know if you used a special mode or something on a smartphone (I am an idiot on photography) but can you take pictures of the coin(s) using a regular filter and showing background, scale, etc. I know there's no slab but I think we need to see light shining off the coins. The photos you gave us -- while nice -- are more like a painting. Not sure how it's done, others have posted them too.

Here's some photos of a Morgan I have that shows all the plusses, minuses, reflections, etc:

 

BTW, if you only paid $45 or less each....unless the price jumps a ton when you move up grades (asymetric increases) or you got them WAY undervalue, not sure it pays to grade them from a financial perspective. If you like the coins and want them in a slab, that's another thing.

If you submit, let us know the grades.

 

Great Southern Coins, that's the name I remember !! Yeah, they had photos that always looked like paintings. I want photos that AREN'T perfect... want to see light reflections.... angles....shadows.....etc.

I posted elsewhere that Proof and Reverse Proof and Cameo coins are being shot in light to accentuate contrast. And gold coins are being shot in light or an orange filter or something to make them super-orangy or shiny.

 

No problem. What I use is a Nikon D800E digital SLR mounted on a copy stand using a Rodenstock enlarging lens and a bellows system. I use either 2 or 3 Jansjo lights with diffusion on them. I set the light's above the coin right next to the lens. I move the lights around just slightly until I get a nice even illumination of the coins entire surface. High angle lighting will help reduce the hot spot's you see on most coins.

I don't use any filter's. I have small pedestal I rest the coins on and set them against a black velvet background. @SuperDave is very familiar with the techniques. I shoot RAW files and convert them in Photoshop. I use a levels adjustment layer to bring the coins shadow and highlights to where they should be, to match the coins in hand look. If the coin is toned, I will use a lighting method known as axial lighting to show the color. It's no different than any other good numismatic photographer including the PCGS TrueView method. Although, I do think the TrueView images are a bit more enhanced. More of a glamour shot. Any editing I do is to show the coin as closely as possible to it's in hand appearance.

 

When I get back in town on Sunday, I'll shoot some images of the coins I posted with much more contrasty light that you are talking about. I know what you are talking about. It's akin to taking a picture of someone in a park on a sunny day using only the sun as your light, versus bringing that person indoors and using controlled lighting to take a much higher quality portrait.