Is a * grade technically possible for MS/PRooF-70?

I understand that 70 is already perfect, with ideal brilliant luster, but what about proof coins? NGC says that it must have cameo on at least one side, as shown below per the link : https://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?NewsletterNewsArticleID=340

• They display cameo or ultra cameo contrast on the obverse only.
• Coins that do not qualify for cameo but which display cameo contrast on both the obverse and reverse that falls just short of NGC's minimum standard for cameo may receive a star. (Coins that display only a subtle contrast will not receive a star or a cameo designation.)
• They qualify for the cameo designation and, in addition, have an ultra cameo obverse.
• They qualify for the ultra cameo designation and, in addition, exhibit exceptionally intense contrast between devices and fields on both the obverse and reverse that exceeds by a generous margin that of the normal ultra cameo standard.

So, if a proof coin has ultra cameo on the obverse only and is designated as a PF-70, then wouldn't an ultra cameo on both sides be "better", since that's what's supposed to show on many proof coins?


Also, NGC defines PF-70 designations as "a Mint State or Proof 70 coin as having no post-production imperfections at 5x magnification." What if there are flaws at, say, 10x magnification? If a different coin of the same type has no flaw at 10x magnification, then shouldn't that be shown as being better (although NGC probably won't check at that magnification so they're all lumped together in the same grade)? But, I'd think it would make sense to afford star designations for flaws that don't exist with stronger magnifications.

 

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"+" no. "*" I wouldn't see why not.

 

Agreed with the above. Whether or not their policy would give a * to a 70 is a different story, but theoretically the * would be acceptable.

If the standard is 5x they will not look at it with any higher magnification than 5x unless they are attributing something or there is a question of authenticity.

 

a + or * on a ms70 is either an idea that would kill that market, or an absolutely brilliant idea to get people to buy the new designations. I can't tell which.

 

Are there any examples of an MS/PF-70 * slabbed coins?

 

I agree. I wrote a thread about it about a year ago, how writers were "laying the groundwork" by postulating the grade. Who knows if this was done at the behest of TPGs. Imagine the regarding fees they would get trying to get the "better" grade?

Pretty laughable to those who do not worry about MS70's.

 

I can't say I have ever seen a 70 with a + or a * , but I could see a very nicely toned 70 getting a star . Though I won't buy a 70 as a 68 or 69 is fine with me .

 

NGC does not assign * grades to MS/PF70 coins -

"NGC applies the to qualifying coins in its normal course of grading. As they are already of the ultimate grade, any coin graded MS 70 or PF 70 will not be eligible for the ."

Source: https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/scale-designations/plus-star.aspx

 

If a 70 is by definition a perfect coin, than any additional added to the grade would be ridiculous and laughable IMHO.

 

How about if one were to find a flaw at 10x magnification on an MS-70 coin?

If, say, a popular coin publication were to run an article on that, then what would NGC do as a response?

 

Not care. Their stated standard is 5x. You'll find a flaw on everything is you jack up the magnification high enough

 

But what if some are found to be "perfect" under 6x and some are more flawed at 6x?

This would assume that they're all MS-70.

By the way, why 5x? It seems a bit arbitrary.

 

If you watch the PCGS grading videos they mention their graders use 5-7x as well for grading when its not for attribution or counterfeit detecting. It is a bit arbitrary but it is also close to what a coin looks like to the naked eye.

Doesn't matter, their stated standard is what they're graded at. Anything more than that isn't relevant to their standard.

 

What I like is "imperfections after the strike" because I have an eagle with a minor strikethrough graded sp70

 

Then it's not a 70.

I was going to dismiss the idea of a "*" 70 until I contemplated a one-side Cameo (for a Business Strike) or appropriate toning. Consider, the appellation can be either for a high-end example of the grade, or one with eye appeal exceeding the average for the grade. 70 is about technical perfection.

 

Philosophically, I have difficulty with the notion of one metaphysically "perfect" object being better or "more perfect" than another. On the other hand, I have equal difficulty with the notion that there is a limit to what the TPGs will do for a dollar.

 

Your retort was in mind as I was hitting the send button dave

 

Well, you've seen me rant about 70's before.

 

@SuperDave talks pure genius.

 

The only thing you could possibly get is my special sticker on a 70