Coin shop etiquette

Most dealers appreciate you having your own loupe. Many walk off with customers. But if any dealer ever had an issue with me looking at the coin closer, I would put the coin down and know not to ever go back. No honest dealer should object to you inspecting the merchandise.

 

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Do you homework on pricing. Visit Heritage, eBay, Coinfacts and NGC to get a feel for the price range in the date, mm and grade.

 

I've experienced an absolute continuum of dealer dispositions. From the nicest people I've ever met to the biggest jerks one could ever imagine. Be yourself and gauge whether the dealer is treating you fairly. Some can be a little temperamental, but sometimes it takes a little patience and perseverance.

For example, years ago I used to frequent a coin shop near where I worked and I got to know the dealer a little bit. He was impressed that I could read Arabic coins and he didn't believe me when I told him some modern Mexican coins still contain silver, until he looked it up. He once let me hold a 1798 silver dollar and I could finally steal a glance at the edge lettering, which I had never seen in person.

So far so good.

Later, I entered his shop and he looked at me sternly and said "I saw you on the bus yesterday and I said hello to you but you didn't say hello back. What was that about?" I honestly didn't remember seeing him and so said "I didn't see you" and he snapped back "no, no, you saw me alright." I just apologized and ran out of the store.

After a decent amount of time passed, I went back to the store and he greeted me in an extremely friendly manner and so I thought, ok, chock it up to a fluke. Then when I started looking around he said "do you know what you want?" I said I was looking for a full red Lincoln. He opened a book and shoved it in my face and said "there, that's full red." It looked more brown to me so I said "uhhhh... thanks, but not that one." He became very irritated and said "well, I have things to do so I have to go in the back." And he left. Eventually I skulked out of the store empty handed. The rest of the day I kept thinking "did I do something wrong?" I used to visit over my lunch hour so I doubt that I was loitering much. Oh well.

I didn't go back to the shop for a decade or more. When I finally did return he claimed not to remember me, not that he should, and he instantly became my best friend when I purchased something of fairly decent value. We had a great chat about the coin market, the precious metals market and the state of coin shops in the region. It was awesome.

So one apparently never knows what will happen, but definitely don't let dealers push you around if they get irritable or nasty. Looking back, I should have never returned to that shop after the "hello" incident, but it's such a cool shop. It still exists with the same owner. I'm sure I'll go back again, though with a hint of trepidation.

 

I always assume that dealers know what they are doing. If they don't, it becomes apparent real quickly and I move on as quickly and politely as I can.

 

loupe
lo͞op/
noun

1. a small magnifying glass used by jewelers and watchmakers.

 

If a dealer couldn't give me a price on a coin in their inventory that they intend to sell, I would avoid them.

Personally, I don't haggle, nor do I comment on the merchandise. If I like the price, i buy. If I don't, I walk away. If I have no interest in the coin, I won't buy at any price.

 

I will gently haggle. But I recognize that the dealer needs to make a buck too. Or they won't be there for me to buy from next time.

A couple dealers I've bought from multiple times will tell me "I'm into it for X, I need to make $5 or $25 or whatever on it". And that's the final price.

At ANA last summer, I visited "my" coin for three days (and checked just about every other dealer in the bourse for something to fill that slot in the collection) before pulling the trigger. If somebody else had wanted it, I would have lost out. But the dealer knew I was high probably a sale and let me talk myself into it.

 

Here are some tips...
http://coins.about.com/od/caringforcoins/tp/How-to-Negotiate-at-a-Coin-Show.htm

 

Chris,
questioning the indicated grade and possibly saying "I don't feel that this coin is an XF..." would be acceptable tactic...what do you think?

 

If you stated your reason(s) why in a calm, concise manner, then that would be acceptable. If you said something like, "No way this coin is XF!" , then I would just put the coin back in the display case.

Chris

 

Be polite. And you can gently ask it that your best price. But many dealers myself included get really irritated when someone low balls them or is constantly hammering them down in. price. I tend to raise my prices for those people if I can or show them the door. The dealer may have been hesitant as there's countless people that waste their time and or want free appraisals

 

This can be completely reasonable, and is ridiculous for anyone to suggest it's often a sign of dishonesty or imply they should be avoided. Short of certain generic moderns (and this is particularly true with older collectible level material) every coin is an individual and should be viewed as such, but perhaps even more importantly in this situation, prices are not static. The coin very well may be labeled with a price top of what he'll take, and was done so expecting negotiation. Quoting you that price over the telephone, especially considering that many of such calls are due to comparison shopping and not a genuine intent to purchase, would be foolish, just as it would be to always quote his absolute bottom line. With most B&Ms you're dealing with a the or one close to the owner and not some distant employee, and just like you they're a person. Just as you want a price that benefit you, they're looking for one that benefits them, but one that also may allow for future business.

As for etiquette, of course there is, but what it mostly boils down to is simple respect. Contrary to what is regretably often claimed here, most are not evil con artists with nothing better to do than try to pull one over on any poor collector who walks in the door. As with most anything in life, attitude will play a big part in your experience. If you walk in the door sure this guy is out to get you, you're probably not going to be happy unless he simply gave you whatever it is you're interested in (and even then some would still complain). Likewise, if you go in with a positive attitude and respect the fact that he's a man just like you but on the other side of the counter, you're going to greatly increase the chances of a positive experience. Of course there are always exceptions, and there are dealers out there with few redeeming qualities, but as a general rule you'll find this works more often than not.

As has already been mentioned, you'll do yourself no favors by bashing the coin you're interested in. It's one thing to respectfully discuss concerns or ask questions, but the guy isn't likely an idiot whose never seen the tactic before. Dealers who have been around the block a few times are usually pretty adept at sniffing out BS.

Perhaps it would be best to simply treat him as you would wish to be if in his shoes. No reasonable individual, upon realizing you're newer, will fault you for some breach of so-called "etiquette".

 

Sometimes someone calls with a questions such as, "Do you have a 1934 S silver dollar and how much is it?" Well, yes. I have that but I don't recall the grades of the ones I have in the shop. Secondly, I am getting old and can no longer store the price of ever coin in every grade that I stock. So I have to take a look. Sometimes I know I have a grade and what the price is in that grade but that price is flexible once I pull it out and check it for imperfections, luster, etc.

Sometimes I take a call while I have people in the shop and am distracted so that I sometimes have to stop and shake my head to clear it.

Sometimes the call is for something obscure to me or something that I don't handle very often and haven't looked at the market prices for years.

The price I charge is sometimes fluid depending on who you are. Yes. You read that right. I have sold things at a loss. Sometimes the smile on the newbie's face is all I really need. It doesn't have to be a kid either.

There is so much more that can affect a price. I am human and have good days and bad. Business isn't done in a vacuum. Other times I really don't want to sell a piece for whatever reason. I keep an 1889 CC dollar in VF with graffiti displayed with a $2750.00 price tag. Why? Because it was the coin that got me started when I was eight and has a great backstory that has started a thousand conversations with folks. I really don't want to sell it but if someone insisted at that stupid number I would probably acquiesce.

I am good natured, as a rule but have grumpy days like everyone else. The bottom line, for me, is that it's MY shop and it's good business to be honest, open and nice to everyone.

 

Here's some coin shop etiquette for you.

I walked into a local coin shop (I had never been there before), it looked like a typical jewelry store layout. Glass counter top display cabinets around the perimeter of the shop. There were five or six employees all working with customers. I was just milling around, looking at the coins in the display cabinets waiting my turn with other customers.

I was in the market for a common date St. Gaudens 1911, 13, 14 or 15, $1,000 range. I always wanted one, just because I think it's one of the most beautiful American coins ever minted.

One of the employees (young kid 30-35 years old) finally asked if he could help me. The kid was preoccupied as he was helping me. He was on the phone, writing stuff down and looked like he was late for a meeting. I obviously did not have his undivided attention.

After I told him what I was interested in, he went back into the safe and brought out 5 common date VF to EF St. Gaudens. They were just in hand marked 2x2 staple holders. I was checking them out with my "own" loupe for a few minutes. The kid said he had to leave and that he would get another employee to help me. I said, okay no problem.

A few seconds later, here comes John the 65 year old, senior employee and "real" numismatist. He started picking up the St. Gaudens and checking them out. He said they were beautiful coins. John thought they were my coins and that I wanted to sell them!

For a split second $8,000 flashed through my head! When I told John they weren't my coins, they were his..............he almost fell over! John turned to look for that young kid. I can tell you, he wanted that kids head on a silver platter!!

I guess we call that etiquette plus integrity.

 

There was one time I bashed.. not the coin, but the seller.

I went to this spot in Manhattan called Plaza 57. Asked to view their world coins. Waited about a half hour to be handed a bucket of $5 per pound modern junk. Made it clear I was interested in more high end material. Another 20 or so minutes later someone brought out several long boxes of coins in flips.
I looked through them, pulled out a few coins I was interested in, as well as a few modern fake Spanish colonial 8 reales in a separate pile and informed the guy that they were cheap and crude fakes. He put the fakes right back into the box and even took the effort to mix them in rather than putting them back all together. Then he said he would give me a good deal at $999. I had picked out maximum $400 worth of coins.
At that point I knew there was no sale, but just out of curiosity I singled out a 1925 Canada 5 cent coin, a key date, but this coin was heavily worn and scratched up. A $25-$30 coin on a good day. He looked at it and said, well it's an EF and easily a $200 or more coin.
At that point I told him rather loudly, and in front of the 15-20 other customers in the shop, that grossly overpricing coins and selling fakes is a bad business model.

He also had this odd and probably illegal policy where you could not leave the store until he gave his door man permission to buzz you out.

Horrible place and experience.

 

Actually, there isn't an etiquette to a coin shop or dealer. I do believe others are in correct in saying, he wanted you in the store and not on the phone. That said, please do you homework prior to going to ANY dealer because they are in business to make money. Make sure you do NOT pay more than what the value of the coin is and...in most cases, you can negotiate for a better price. I can tell you that I typically don't pay retail for coins and NEVER pay it's value. I try to keep the purchase to 80% value so I have equity. Good luck.

 

This has been such a fabulous thread. I am still reading and re-reading posts. I am so glad to also read many from actual shop owners. I am not done going through all of it but wanted to let you all know I actually pulled my transaction today. I was looking for a nice double eagle for my wife for Valentines. My LCS proprietor had never seen me before and I was (as a study of human nature--I am a writer) scrutinized in a very fair manner. He was not forthcoming with conversation and had no idea what my intentions were until I actually purchased my metal (I took a fair amount of silver bullion in 10 oz bars and some Eagles) and dropped the name of the guy that referred me to him. I should have dropped the name immediately to break the ice but I'm glad I didn't. I got an honest response and an honest treatment for someone he'd never seen. I was talking up coins but he made it clear he was simply not in the mood to talk on our first meeting. He was kind and fair. I'm a total newbie and I can't imagine what he deals with day to day. So, maybe a little more talk about coins next time... I LOVE coins, and bullion and I look forward to further business with him. Thanks again for all of the wonderful letters here.

 

I guess we have different interpretations of what "etiquette" means.

Of course dealers are interested in making money... after all, that's what businesses do, but the same people who act as if this is some terrible thing are often the same ones who don't think twice about patronizing other businesses or purchasing at the marked price without thinking they're being ripped off. Instead of putting a fear of dealers (intentionally or not) into new collectors, it would be much more beneficial if people spoke more about how truly valuable, and how much of an asset a good and knowledgeable dealer can be. This aside, if people concerned themselves more with actually learning of the coins they wish to purchase instead of worrying about the guy selling them, the latter would become a non issue.

The idea of "NEVER" paying a coin's value or retail may be fine, although limiting, for experienced/knowledgeable collectors/buyers, but focusing too much on it is a fine way for the new or inexperienced to end up with a bunch of dreck. Of course this would logically take us into what "value" really is; it's one thing to intelligently determine a realistic retail value for the individual coin in question, and something else altogether to (in most cases) simply reference a "guide". The fact is that for a great number of coins, valuing them is more of an art than science. Buying even certified coins back of supposed retail doesn't automatically mean it was some great deal. Certain coins, sometimes referred to as "hot potatoes", will often sell at discounts because they're dogs, fairly often ending up with newer collectors looking for that deal, and who don't quite understand what it is they actually purchased. In this hobby and/or business, knowledge is key, and those who don't have it are and will always be at a disadvantage to those who do.

 

I can't see asking a dealer for a price on a coin that I have never seen over the phone. The dealer needs time to pull the coin and figure out what he needs. That's not always easy in a busy shop. I find it best to talk price, face to face.

 

Others have covered it well, but the main thing is to be polite. A little haggling is always acceptable and probably expected. It's the dealer's responsibility to know what he needs to get out of the coin and not take any less than that amount, but don't lowball. Don't reach into a case unless the dealer says it's okay. Do bring your own loupe, but, if you forget it at home, don't worry about it.

It's totally ok to comment on or ask about different aspects of the coin. "Is this a scratch here?" could be met with "Yes, and it's priced accordingly," or "No, I didn't see that; I'll give you a discount if you buy it," or even "Nope, that's a die crack! Here, come look at it under the microscope so you can see more easily."

Respect the dealer as a knowledgeable professional until he or she proves to you otherwise. And, in that case, if the dealer is professional, but not knowledgeable, share what you know. Otherwise, walk away and keep it classy.

One thing I will mention is that the fact you're even concerned about etiquette is a good thing. Have fun.