Question about older PCGS holders

Hello all, I have a coin in an old PCGS holder that is fairly worn and has a few scratches on it (the holder not the coin). I was thinking about getting the coin put in a new holder, so I took it to a dealer, who told me he would send it for me, but he recommended I keep it in the holder it was in because it had a green label, and that these older coins were graded more conservatively. He said that because of this, the green-label PCGS coins were worth more than the newer ones.

Is this true? I have never heard of this. It is important that I know for sure because this coin is the best one I have (An 1856 Flying Eagle in PR60). Thanks in advance!

 

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Just because it is in an OGH doesn't always make it worth more. It depends on the coin itself, and if grading standards for it have changed over the years.

 

There are people who will pay a premium for the OGH (Old Green Holders). So it may be better to keep it in the OGH, but there are a number of things to consider. Such as, what style OGH (there were a number of series with the Green holder, the older, generally the more desirable), also, does the coin have a good chance at upgrading, and what's the price jump between grades.

If you can post pictures of the coin, and the slab, we will be able to provide more insight.

 

The coin is in a safe at my parent's house, so I'll post a pict later this week.

I don't know anything about the varieties of the green-labeled slabs. I have one other coin in a PCGS slab, but it is a new slab, so I can't make a comparison.

The coin itself is really nice except for a small black/brown fleck at the edge of the coin around 10-oclock near the "E" in "United". This may be the reason they graded the coin a PR60, as it is otherwise superb and has very few nicks.

 

Here's a link to the PCGS slab generations: PCGS generations

 

Thanks for this link! It is the first generation holder with the "PCGS" spelled out on the back (same as the 1886 Morgan in the example). I'll try stopping over at my parent's house tomorrow or Wednesday to post a picture of it.

 

You can buy a liquid that will take out scratches. Slab-renew or something like that, if the scratches bother you that much. I've always heard "buy the coin, not the slab".

 

I would listen to your dealer. People will pay a premium for the older holders, especially the first generation rattler, and the doily. Many people believe that the grading standards of the TPG's have loosened over the years, thus yielding under-graded coins in these older holders. Here is an MS65 FB Mercury Dime in a green label holder with a gold CAC sticker, but it looks accurately graded to me.



I think you should leave the coin in it's current holder and follow the slab cleaning route.

 

If it is the Generation 1 PCGS (Rattler) holder I agree with Lehigh.

I took a look at some of the prices on Heritage, and it doesn't look like there would be much of a price increase if it upgraded to a 61 (or even 62).

 

Thank you for the advice, I'll just try using the "Slab-Renew" (I found a site online I can order it from). By the way, why is this slab called a "rattler"??

 

One can polish scuffs out of slabs with Brasso, a nice soft cloth, and elbow grease. I'm sure many other products work nicely.

 

Some coins would rattle inside because the inner plastic sleeve didn't tightly grip the coin. Maybe it did when made but contracted over the years; I don't know. The rim of the coin would bang the inside of the slab.

 

True.

There is a general rumor that OGH are better. This is promulgated by those who feel grading standards have slipped.

But here's the major flaw in that reasoning. Let's assume grading standards have slipped, meaning that today's slabs tend to have a higher grade then the same coin might have received in the old days. But even back then, some coins were overgraded by the standard of the day, putting them at a par with (or even substandard to) today's grading.

And here's the key - since the rumor says OGHs tend to be great candidates for an upgrade, thousands of people have looked at OGHs and picked out the best. Those have already been cracked out and submitted. Only a small fraction of the original OGHs remain, and they are the remnants after the best were picked over.

That means that the few which survive tend to be the weakest of the original stash. If they were strong candidates for upgrade, they would have been submitted by now. The exception is tightly held coins seeing the market for the first time in decades as old collections are sold.

 

I agree with 900fine. When I see a coin being sold in a "rattler " or OGH I can usuall find a reason why the coin is in its final resting place. I usually pass on them because many dealers are trying to sell them in the next grade tier, but thats blue sky to be realized by the buyer not the seller. Unless I knew for a fact that a coin is from an old collection built by a collector with an eye for quality. But not from an unknown dealer at a coin show bourse floor. You can bet they have worked all their stock through the grading services long before it is up for sale.

 

This thread is gold and I'm reviving it since I've got some more questions.

Especially post #5, that link should be bookmarked!

Can anyone else confirm if the older holders are graded more conservatively?


And, I'm looking to purchase a silver eagle in a PCGS generation 7 holder vs. one in the current generation. The coins "look" the same from the pics, but they're only pics... and they're virtually the same price.

Would older but younger than non-OGH slabs be graded more meticulously than today's slabs? Has the slab quality improved for the "common" slabs (e.g. greater scratch resistance, stronger plastic, UV protection, etc.)?

Thanks in advance!

 

As far as grading some were more conservatives others weren't. If you graded every one of those holders and resubmitted some would come back higher, some lower, but most would be the same grade. Like mentioned you have a better chance it could be an upgrade candidate if it has sat in a collection for decades. If it has sold a lot in the last few years it's a good bet someone sent it in for reconsideration.

As a side note a one grade upgrade isn't always the best move with those either. A rattler with a Gold CAC sticker if you can get gold will generally sell way above its slab grade.

As far as slab quality, the newer ones are far superior. I haven't tested it but PCGS has a video of their new slabs being thrown in a fish tank and the coin coming out dry. The plastic is also much clearer and more scratch resistant.

 

In the real world, contemplate how long people have lusted after OGH PCGS slabs. It stands to reason that the only ones left on the market are either whatever trickle of long-term holdings reach the sales channel, somebody flipping deliberately-bought examples (knowing they won't upgrade), or picked through. It is my belief that the hysteria (in some circles) surrounding this generation of slabs should die down somewhat.

 

That's an interesting point. So, if it's an older coin in a new slab, there's a greater likelihood that it could have been resubmitted from a lower grade or other TPG's slab. But assuming it was an older PCGS slab, then it could have graded, say, PR-68, broken out of that slab and resubmitted to come back as a PR-69.

But it sounds like the grades are more or less consistent over the majority of PCGS's existence. If that's the case, then I think I'll take the higher quality slab build over the older slab.

 

Which one would you get?

If the slab quality of the first is the same as the second, then maybe I'll stick with the first. I'm not sure when the quality improved.

I like the plain white label of the first one better than the blue-white gradient of the second one. Though, maybe PCGS is due for a label design upgrade, because IMHO, NGC takes the cake on presentation.

Pics from the 'bay:

 

Not necessarily. Keep in mind that there is a portion of collectors that resist slabs, when they first started out that portion was even higher than today. New coins come to market from collections getting sold, some people crack slabs or prefer albums even for high end coins ect. But the percentage of slabbed coins as certainly gone up since they started out 30 years ago so unless someone got the upgrade or an owner of an older slab recognizes one of his coins it is really impossible to say whether or not it ever upgraded. Some coins certainly did, some may have just been reholdered into the nicer slabs as well as not everyone has the frenzy for the older slabs.

The one real advantage the older slab has is it can show you whether or not a coin is stable. A nicely toned coin that was slabbed 10 years ago is relatively stable if it hasn't changed ect. However the brand new slabs were designed to do their best to minimize what gets into them from the outside if you can drop them in water and only the slab gets wet.

But yes cracking out coins believed to be an upgrade candidate is certainly part of the hobby. If you look at population reports with a big price difference between two grades the population in the lesser grade is almost certainly somewhat inflated by crackouts where people are trying to get that next grade up and the huge value jump.

If I had to pick between those two I like the look of the first one better based off the pictures.

They change the labels some time to time, they changed the back of the label drastically with the new slab they introduced last year. I do really like the new NGC label presentation wise with the writing moved to the left but prefer the clear look of the PCGS slabs overall. If NGC would use clear prongs to hold the coin I would like their slab a lot better. Though with the different plastics they use, it is significantly harder to get scratches off of NGC ones then PCGS if you scuff them up.