Just a regular "your opinions on this toning" post

I'm curious what your numbers 8-2 mean here. Do you mean there are 8 signs of AT vs 2 signs of NT? Could you elaborate and explain what you mean here?

To the OP - while PCGS apparently called it QC, I disagree. Try cracking and resubmitting (if you think it is worth it), or just crack and sell it raw (I don't think it is really worth the submission fees, and it definitely appears NT to me).

 

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I had no doubt on the toning being natural. I felt it had decent appeal but was not spectacular should command a premium but not a huge one. Is resubmit it myself. I think pcgs flips a coin on toners half the time anyway

 

My regular opinion is that it is natural toning, and apparently, a TPG agrees with me, it seems. Doug does't necessarily agree that TPGs are as knowledgeable about toning as they are, and I obviously disagree. Consider the coin market acceptable, and it is attractive toning in my opinion. I am not getting into what the TPGs do right or wrong--it is slabbed, and unless they said "Artificial Toning," then consider it acceptable to the coin community. If they called it AT, then I would be quite surprised.

 

This has nothing to do with whether or not we feel TPG toning opinions are accurate, and everything to do with them hedging their bets against future claims by being extremely conservative in their evaluations. So, the fact that the toning had been adjudicated as "natural" is a pretty strong point in its' favor.

I agree with that opinion, but I'd like to see the reverse as well.

Just don't lose sight of the fact that the line between AT and NT is quite blurred in many circumstances, and this coin is one of them. We can never know who's right.

 

And they called it qc which on this one I disagree with. Yet on another thread (1801 dollar). They passed a doctored and artificial toned early dollar that the op found before and after pics of The coin doctors are getting real good and I think the tpgs especially PCGS are getting real erratic

 

Thank you "Change." I feel any opinions given on CT (in good faith,; right or wrong) are just that - an opinion - not trashing. Just because the coin was purchased in the fancy box does not indicate in any way that it is original toning. As is wrote previously, IMO IT IS STILL A BEAUTIFUL COIN!

Toning is a difficult subject. A decade ago, near the start of TPG, Bill Fivaz pulled a gem rainbow coin from his safe and sent it in to one of the two "Top" services. It came back in a body bag as AT! He was furious because he knew where the coin had been for years. He wrote a scathing letter to the Editor about the experience.

I have toned coins in my collection...one a lustrous LAVENDER Peace dollar that is 100% natural. Mike Fazzari has told me that he worked in TN at a coin shop that had pine walls and gas heat. He saw thousands of silver rounds in buckets covered in cobwebs that were deep iridescent green, purple, pink, and blue! None of those rounds would be considered natural although they were naturally toned.
PS I got the peace dollar from Mike.

Now to answer the 8/2 rating. One spot on the coin and the color looks natural, while the total picture looks AT. On one hand, blotchy toning and unusual color with tiny, untoned, spotting is not a good sign; on the other hand, coins that are up against "dirty velvet" or other types of cloth tend to resemble this coin. Gun to my head...I'll say Natural. However, AND THIS IS THE BIG ONE: If I worked for a TPGS, not market acceptable AT.

As I wrote before, Crack it and keep it raw or sell for $$$. Toned coins are hot. IMO, don't waste any more money on grading fees. 8/2 it will be returned from PCGS, NGC, ICG as AT. I cannot guess about ANACE but that is where I would send it if I wanted it in a "straight graded" slab.

My money is on the TPGS over all of you. The TPGS see more toned coins than anyone on CT. They see more AT than anyone here too. There are characteristics found on natural and AT coins that help make decisions such as my 8/2. Eventually they catch even the very deceptive AT coins like the rash of commemoratives with blocky, blue, brown colors that flooded the market decades ago!

DOUG IS CORRECT. Learn to grade and buy the coin not the plastic!

 

Wow, I did not see that. No way would I call that questionable. I have ones that look very similar, and are in graded slabs. That is quite arbitrary.

 

IMO, I think all of us will agree that it is important to consider the experience and knowledge of the people rendering an opinion. Three professionals that see hundreds of coins a day vs professional dealers and collectors like us.

 

You can bet on that. Nevertheless, the TPGS need to be fair. If I remember, the 1801 was STILL an attractive coin no matter what was done to it. Apparently the graders WHO HAD THE ACTUAL COIN TO EXAMINE rendered an opinion that the Ex-Perts here didn't agree with.

 

Mainbill...what is the chance of re-posting the before and after here or ID the thread for us?

 

I am not a coin tone person I like the different mint marks and low mintages besides that coin looks to be beaten or is that the case

 

I'm in full agreement. I see a lot of questionable stuff in slabs. And have other stuff with no doubt in my mind come back qc

 

Good thoughts /opinons going on. I will get better images tomorrow and that may help our discussion, yes the reverse as well.

I'm a bit disappointed at the 'grade', but again, not surprised. I think its market acceptable as well, and may or may not send it back in. For the price it would command even with the toning, its probably not worth it, but I may need it to round out a submission so we'll see.

I'll get better images tomorrow and try and get them posted tomorrow as well.

 

It seems like PCGS names anything with color as questionable toning.

 

I must disagree. I have never received a qt back from pcgs until a month ago when they qt'd a 99 jeff I sent in that I know what toned in a littelton album along with others in that sub that all came back with a straight grade save the jeff for some reason.

I think ngc is WAY more harsh and critical on toners than pcgs for sure. In fact I've had body bagged ngc toners come back straight from pcgs

 

That is the nature of the beast. Many times the change in opinion is due to "new" information. Nevertheless, IMO they are doing their best. As I said before, IMO, their best try is a thousand times better than 99.9% of anyone on CT including me.

 

That's some really nice toning. I'd pay double what coin is worth for toning that nice. What does the reverse look like?

 

Here are some better pics, multiple views to get a better idea of the toning