1921 Peace Dollar grading

Thanks Paul!

 

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My personal AU-58, old cleaning under the natural gray surface but a coin I should sell all day as a "Commercial" MS-63 due to great eye appeal and my interpretation of how the TPGS would grade it based on the coins I have bought/sold/examined.

I wrote this above and it is an IMAGINARY coin not the OP's dollar!

 

First, I apologize for the quality of these photos. Lighting horrible...other camera in office tied up This is what I have learned:

This $3 has an AU-58 amount of wear and it is harshly cleaned. It does not matter if it is bag marked, cut, holed , deeply scratched, etc. None of those have anything to do with "Mechanical Cleaning." The DEGREE of hairlines (# & intensity) is too much to ignore on this piece! This coin is unacceptable for a "straight grade" EVEN THOUGH the ANA standards say an MS-60 or 61 can have continuous hairlines throughout. We can also state that this coin is actually "damaged" due to the degree of imperfection.

As I rotate the coin in the light (see photos), different directional hairlines become visible. Also (you may not see this in the micrographs -sorry again), the relief detail is very slightly rounded. This is common on polished, buffed (harshly cleaned) coins. There is one problem with TPGS "Improperly Cleaned Details" or "Harshly Cleaned Details" In many cases, you do not know what the coin will look like because they rarely use "Buffed" or "Polished."

I got off the subject. IMO, the original coin IS NOT harshly cleaned. In fact, from the photo alone, it should receive a straight grade. That's because the majority of lightly circulated vintage coins have been rubbed, mishandled, and improperly dipped at sometime in the past causing random hairlines on their surface. This is the way the OP's coin looks to me. When you have looked closely at lots of coins, you'll know a harshly cleaned coin when you see one.

 

@Cascade thanks for the book reference. I'll check that one out. I'm reading "A Guide Book of Peace Dollars (Official Red Book)" and it's very thorough and educational.

Everyone: I'm the OP and yes I am finding all of the discussion very educational. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'm finding them all valuable. I think this proves how hard it is to grade Peace Dollars.

@Insider hmmm...you're right, the OP's coin (my coin) has many small and light marks, perhaps not consistent with cleaning.

Here's the pic again for reference. It's an accurate representation of what the coin actually looks like in hand (except for light reflection when moving the coin of course).

Thanks, all.

 

Also I'm considering sending it to NGC for grading just to settle things once and for all. Though I don't collect slabbed coins, so I would crack it out upon arrival to put back into my Dansco album.

 

IMO nice Photo's! Can't wait to see what I can do on our "Big Rig. This will be hard to beat. IMO, I think the XF answers are correct.

 

I don't know if that's awesome or idiotic lol

 

@Insider what are you referring to with "big rig"?

 

Why waste the money if you are going to crack it? Hold on to the coin for awhile. As you become more confident with your grading, this will be an easy one
PS I would sell it as an AU.

PSS We have a Cannon camera with several different light sources in a room. I have never touched it. Sign on door says "KEEP OUT." When I need a photo of an entire coin, I give it to someone and tell them what I want to show; however, with all the good pics on CT, I asked the office manager to get someone to show me how to use it. Fingers crossed.

Most of my needs are using a Cannon power shot on the third tube of my scope.

 

First, I would like to thank Insider to take the time to give us his opinion. That still does not change my original opinion I think this coin has been harshly cleaned by the parallel circular and contiguous scratches on the Obverse and Reverse of this Coin. That is why TPGC will even with their vary educated opinions It really is what would someone else will pay, as to what it is worth?
Second, pr69 unless you feel necessary to spend the money and find out their opinion, you will still only have a coin worth ~$140 retail. That is if you find someone else that will agree with the AU Grade. Or maybe $20-50 less if they think this is AU Details or XF Grade. Unless this coin was given to you, the economics would discourage this move. IMO this coin will never again be an UNC Coin.
While in the quest for coins you will probably find better uses of your money.

 

@Insider and @tpsadler you're probably right -- I'll probably just hang onto it, and compare to other slabbed coins I see at shows, and solicit dealer's opinions, and hone my grading skills. With the fees I'd pay to grade it, I could buy another Peace Dollar for my collection.

 

A very nice and civil comment. I certainly respect your opinion and I agree...buy more coins

 

Here's a 1921 I have that came back cleaned. Throwing it up here for reference/feedback

 

Thanks, for input and photo. Nice example of a cleaned coin and I could even argue for harsh cleaning on this one from the brushing.

 

PS Note the gray/white color of the cleaned coin vs the silver gray of the OP.

Still think the OP will be straight graded (using just photos).

 

Nice Photos. Thanks for sharing these. To me those are without a doubt Harshly Cleaned with a brush, maybe even an oiled brillo-pad

 

Insider -> JK about the brillo-pad

 

Take it to shows and show it to dealers you respect. They have an automatic advantage over all of us in that they get to see the coin and all we get is a picture.

 

@Sean5150 - thanks, that helps a lot. @Insider's comment about the coloring, and @tpsadler's comment which references the many parallel/straight light scratches point to the reason for the TPG's cleaning/details attribution.

This is the last photo of the OP coin, I promise, but as I've refined my photography with some other coins I decided to snap another pic of it. I'm fairly convinced that it will grade straight, and based on the specific amount of detail I would say AU-55, however we'll never know because I probably will never send it in for grading, despite the temptation to do so.

 

NOT! Take a brillo pad to an AU coin (Morgan & Peace as I have) and compare the look.