Certified grading companies

Although I agree that a collector has to have a decent amount of knowledge about what he is collecting, it is a mistake to paint the TPGs as not for purist collectors.

In fact, I believe the TPGs -- PCGS and NGC -- provide a valuable service to the new collector as they tackle the challenges of this hobby. They can mostly avoid the ripoff of cleaned coins and -- depending on what they collect -- the financial setback of counterfeits. They can also learn how to judge whether a coin is weak or strong for the grade and how to research auction results to determine what price they want to pay.

The TPGs are not perfect. We can all go to our collections and pull out a coin they didn't get right. But the positives of a slabbed coin far outweigh the negatives, especially for a novice collector.

 

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Hey...great to have an EX-(from or out of) Pert (tiny drip under pressure) letting us know he is out there overseeing the coin market for TPGS certified fakes

 

@Santinidollar , like you, I'm a strong proponent of the top 2 TPG's when it comes to minimizing risk for the new collector. In fact, I'll bet their presence in the market has fueled commerce at that very level.

 

After you know how to grade for yourself, you'll find that in most cases, the top four services coins look alike; however, as said above, the top two TPGS slabs bring more money - mostly because there sight unseen bids are supported by a large # of dealers.

 

Wish I would have thought of that "ploy" before D. Hall! TPGS have brought many non-collectors, ignorant investors, etc. into the market (for bad or worse) and give all of us who lack your expertise a sense of security

 

Absolutely True...and they all will continue to slab fakes until they are eventually detected! Still, that's better than the 60's when fakes were passed around (knowingly and unknowingly) like free drinks!

 

Well, well... You might actually be an Ex-Pert on this subject. So... you are aware that the Micro "O" coins were turning up at the US Treasury and several major cities around the turn of the century. Somehow, these circulated coins "fell off" the radar and were assimilated into the VAM books. The dies must have still been around because in the 1990's XF to Unc's came out of the woodwork and were slabbed by the TPGS's.

 

IMO, both these services do as good a job as NGC, PCGS. While ownership changed, in many cases, the graders/authenticators just switched companies.

Buy the ANA Grading guide and read the excellent intro. Also, the grading guide listing marks, hairlines, etc. in the dollar section will help w/your grading. The grading as done in this book is too conservative as standards have loosened.

Grading coins by Photographs - Bowers is a better book. The into to that is also excellent and will explain the changes in grading standards.

 

You better check your facts. Many of the TPG's I know have very nice collections. I once was at a TPGS table when a TPG from another company left some coins to be slabbed because he liked that TPGS's holders/cost/turnaround and he could avoid any appearance of conflict of interest. They had a great chat, he received an "unofficial" grading opinion and I got to meet another TPG and learn a few things from both.

 

Sorry, misunderstood. You are correct. "Purists" don't need slabs or grading services.

PS I'm a purist

 

A lot of valid points being made here. I will add that one of the most important reasons for buying a coins with third party grading is liquidity. This is the main reason PCGS was founded in 1986 and enjoyed rapid success.

As a collector in pre-TPG days, the buying and selling of coins involved two major components: agreeing on the grade; and then agreeing on a price. Third-party grading has changed the dynamic of coin collecting significantly and made collectors a lot more comfortable "investing" in rare coins. Of course this has been good and bad, but mostly good. Bad because prices on rare coins have been driven way higher than anyone dreamed possible. Bad, because what goes up can also come down, so there's more volatility in the market.

The reason CDN follows PCGS and NGC closely is because these two grading companies offer the most liquidity in the marketplace. ICG and ANACS do not have "market makers" per se who set levels and this affects the seller's liquidity. Finally I will add that CAC (the stickering company) has enjoyed extreme acceptance at the highest level of the hobby because they started out as a way for submitters to make their coins more "liquid". CAC makes a market on thousands of coins and that's huge for a seller. Ironically, the more of a market CAC makes in coins they sticker, the less coins they are offered directly. Many dealers will pay more than published CAC bids for coins.

 

I know a bit about them, they are a specialty collecting interest of mine. As are many black box items. I have a conjecture that they may have in fact originated with an early 20th century foreign government that had the technology to strike very convincing examples akin to what N. Korea is doing with the $100 bill in the present time. And it may well be possible that in the 1990s when XF-BU examples started popping out of the woodwork that the successors may have to sell off what remained and had not been previously sold into the market early on.

 

Extremely well said. I hope you will find the time to enlighten us on all/any other "posts" on CT. I am new and it is addicting.

 

The NYT archives has some great stories on these coins. If I remember they were struck in Manila (Don't quote me on this).

 

Welcome John!

 

That might be, but they are not recognized in the market as such. Both ANACS and ICG have an uphill battle in getting their reputation restored.

 

Just checked my files on these...

From CW 5/16/2005 by Robert Leonard, Jr.

NYT 7/10/00 Gangs in Philippines making Mexican and US silver $.
Gang broken up but production continued until 1902.

NYT 3/13/98 Fake $ flooding Denver. "silver, and such remarkably close imitations...almost impossible to detect."

 

I'd like to read the article on the NYT site, but do their archives go back that far?

 

I believe they do BUT you probably need to subscribe. It was long ago. I do not have time to search for you yet... I just "Googled" New York Times March 1898 and a bunch of free stuff came up. Good Luck.

 

Thanks, It would no longer be an easy drive for me from Anchorage. What is the average time before you get the coins back.