2015 snow on roof

Sir I truly appreciate your comments and advice. And I would like to address some of your comments sir I do not know why one of your members would take the word out of a comment and take it personally, it seems to me that this individual has issues that need to be addressed. Sir anyone has a right to disagree with me that is your right. But no one has a right to tell me what I believe in wrong. Sir I believe you're old enough to know the cud and chip debate has been going on for many years. And the clean or not to clean controversy. Sir you're right there are new and young and even old coin collectors on the site and all must remember there are two sides to a coin and it is not wrong to believe that a definition should be revised, I get in trouble when I use old sayings, but here goes why does big brother cud, not want to share its name with its little brother chip? Sir you seem to be wise and knowledgeable, why is it that the 2016 Redbook does not have the definition of die chip in it. And I do believe 23 millions of these books are sold.

 

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1. Continued. Sir you are right there is a lot of knowledge out there. But it seems on this site that some members do not know when to expressive their knowledge. Sir certain members express their knowledge without realizing they may be redundant. A person has a hard time hearing the same thing over and over and over again. Please wait until a question is asked, and then go for it. And please keep in mind that some people are gonna disagree with you and for the younger members that's OK to disagree. And always it is better to disagree with some one thin it is to tell someone that their believes are wrong, please do not do that, disagree OK .wrong not OK. Sir all I wanted to do a show the people a nice looking coin, but it seems it's sum of your experts wanted to get all up in my coolaid. (Not acceptable.) And but I will admit it was expected.

 

One of many but this one is mind.

 

Definition:
A cud is a damaged area resembling a blob on the surface of a coin which is raised above the field a little, and which obliterates the device or inscription where it appears. Cuds are the result of die cracks which have become severe, or from die chips where part of the die surface has become damaged and broken away.

Some experts in the error-variety hobby insist that for the blob to be called a cud, the damaged part of the die must include part of the edge of the die.
Although this is the purist definition, in common parlance you'll see the term "cud" used to describe the blob created by any die chip or serious die crack, regardless of its placement on the die or coin.

 

Thank you excellent.

 

I was taught ( actually self taught) that the details on a coin are identified by the details of the die that made it. If you think of it this way it can be easy to understand. Describing the die, a cud is a piece of the die that has broken or a better description would be split off. The reason they cross the rim. There are two types of details on a coin that describe this this piece of die. One where the piece is broken off completely and is missing, which allows metal to flow into the void left by the missing piece or cud. The other is where the cud or broken piece is retained and actually transfers it's details to the coin, which we call a retained cud. It isn't the glob of metal on a coin that gives it a name, but the actual description of the die. The same as a doubled die coin is described by the die it was struck from.
A chip can be anywhere on the die and are just that, a chip off the surface of the die.
A cud is a piece of the die. A die chip is a chip off the surface of the die.

 

you get this from that same site the OP uses?? if so, you need better references as well....

notice the word "experts" ??

and yes it is very common to see the term "cud" used to incorrectly describe a die chip, these people are know as "uninformed"....

 

i use the references people gave me here. I understand what a cud is but if you research it then there is false information on the web that can mis-lead people. sometimes its not the posters fault. we should have patience with those people and give them the correct links so that we may help them progress in their journey and have a better understanding.

 

don't thank me just yet. see what I responded to ken. people call the "snow on roof" a cud to attract collectors on ebay ( that don't know what a cud really is ) to promote their sales. it's to big to be called a "chip" and not touching the rim which means it is NOT a cud. if it was to be called anything it would be an interior die break. here is a good site to read further on different types of die breaks.

http://cuds-on-coins.com/

 

ken it's nice to hear from you again. Sir in this day and age with the Internet it is extremely hard to be uninformed. You can look up almost anything, and be well informed. Sir I started this conversation in Seattle over 13 years ago, big brother cude does not want to share its name with little brother chip. This debate went on for well over six months, sir just because someone does not believe the same thing you believe does not make them (uninformed) as you are entitled to your opinion let other people be entitled to their opinion. And KEN I'm sure you and other members are gonna disagree with this statement. I'm not gonna pay top dollar for a rIm chip . ( And yes I know you're going to say it is not A chip that is A CUD) KEN why do you find it so hard to let people believe in their opinions, sir in over six months of debate you have the pros and you have the cons, evidently that's not gonna change. AND the conclusion was that name and location, on the market the cudes value is higher than the chip. In reality, the cause of a die break are basically the same. a piece of metal falling off a die maybe that's a reason the red book failed to put the definition of the die chip in the 2016 edition 23,000,000 copies sold this year.ken as someone that is informed. You can explain why the red book left out definition of a die chip? ken since you disagreed with the last site I'd mention coinabout and it went over your head and evidently others. Let's try NUMISMATIC ERROR glossary of NUMISMATIC TERMS. Sir. You are definitely not going to like this.

 

Sir to start off with i do not see selling the COIN in the future it is going into my collection, and the first five years of my life was in a cabin similar to this ONE in the foothills of North Carolina, it reminds me of a good sunny day when the snow has been melting off the roof of the cabin. I'm sure some of the older members can relate. And since I did mention Cow paddies evidently a lot of members has never gotten into a good Cow paddy fight, it's a kick in the pants and it's also messy. And yes I have seen Cow paddies stock on the side of the cabin and the worst part I had to clean them off the side of the cabin. And thank you, I have read cuds on coins many years ago and found it very informative. Like I said previously isn't the Internet great. It would be great if we could just call all of them die breaks but wait in reality cud -die chip -cracked die are all die breaks in one form or another,the controversy continues.

 

Bull.

Words have definitions. These definitions predate you. The fact that you or others choose not to use these terms with their appropriate definitions does not make it an acceptable practice. An overdate is an overdate whether you call it a clash or not.

 

I was only posting that because it is first thing a new comer will find if they try to research it.

 

This isn't the "purist definition." It's the definition.

So the first thing you want them to find is wrong information?

I'm sorry, this is a hot-button topic for me. You wouldn't walk into an auto shop and start calling car parts by whatever name you wished. Every trade, every specialty, has its' proprietary language and meanings, and numismatics goes to hell quickly when people don't bother using those definitions correctly.

You are helping to make numismatics worse.

 

http://cointerms.com/glossary/c_definitions.htm

 

Sir if I was new in error coin collecting as I was many many years ago, when I started my research I found numismaticerror.com and went to Glossary of numismatic terms. This is the definition that I grew up with. And like you this is a touchy subject with me to. I was told when I started collecting that this debate was going on for longer than even the person could remember. The basics. cud-cause broken die. die-chip-cause-broken die. die crack-cause-die fracture do you see where I'm going with this, all I'm saying is that they're both cause by the same thing. And I don't know whoever came up with that ruled that it's not a cud unless it is not touching the rim. And I would most definitely like to have this debate with him or her,

 

If you close your mind to education, your intelligence just dwindles.

 

OK, we can have that debate. Cuds include the rim. That's final, it's been final for longer than you or I have been alive, and when we're dead cuds will still include the rim.

 

What most don't understand is that the glob of metal on a coin isn't what defines the name. It's the die that made it is what defines the name. When there's a piece broken off off a die, it's that piece that is the cud. If there is a raised line of metal defining a crack, it isn't a cracked coin, it is a cracked die. If there is a small speck of raised metal on a coin, it isn't called a pimple, it is a chipped die, hence called a die chip, which that missing little piece from the die is called.

 

I'm buying all of that except the part where you misused the term "cud," too. Why call them "die cracks?" Call them anything you want.