Learning to grade Peace Dollars

Cool - congrats. To get them into your forum posts, click the "Upload a File" button (near "Post Reply") and then after selecting a file and seeing the progress bar, you'll see a "Full Image" button that will pull the whole image into the post. I have not done this from within my phone -- I've only transferred the photos to my computer first and posted to CoinTalk from my computer.

 

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Splendid shots pr69. It's just amazing that that kind of photography can be achieved with a hand held device that provides both texting capability as well as phone service.

I just ain't gonna throw my DSLR out the window yet........

 

This was taken with my wife's Ipod touch yesterday. Beats the heck out of my normal camera...

 

Paul, just to clear this up, you mean it's an element in the market grade, not in the technical grade. If some aren't getting that, I'll point you back to the old Red Books, before the advent of market grading. You'll see they'll say stronger strikes command higher prices. Note, they won't grade higher, they'll price higher. That says, right there, strike isn't an element in the technical grade, but a factor in the price. The technical grade, in other words, doesn't change for the strike.

 

@pr69, it looks like you have a retained crack on that one, look at the bottom of the neck. Nice coin. MS64 is my grade, too.

 

Since this thread has taken a photographic turn... I'm wondering if there's a good way to take pictures of small coins with an iPhone. I can't get good pics of anything much smaller than a nickel, but I'd love to photograph my Panama Pill (diameter 10mm). Do I need a macro attachment?

 

Or a 10x loupe if you have one. It acts like macro zoom if you focus it right

 

My loupe is only a 4x. Probably not good enough, eh? :/

 

@eddiespin I hadn't noticed that on my 1922 Liberty's neck; thanks for pointing it out. So basically the die had a crack in it, so when it struck the planchet it left a raised line on the coin? That's interesting since the mint had so many problems with short die life as they struck high relief 1921 Peace Dollars.

 

@Paul M. I would think your iPhone camera would suffice; as long as you don't place your iPhone too close to the coin, and tap on the image of the coin to focus before you snap the pic. You may be tempted to put the iPhone really close to the coin so it fills up the frame, but instead you could try snapping the picture fairly far away from the coin, and crop it using one of the many apps available in the app store; I have one called "Crop" which was free.

 

Yep, raised lines are caused by some sort of crack or scratch on the die. If it's an irregular shape, it's a crack (but sometimes a small crack can be fairly straight as well). Tiny raised lines that come in patches are die polish. If you want to check out die cracks on Peace dollars, go to www.vamworld.com and prepare to possibly lose hours of your life looking at all the different Peace dollar varieties.

I'll give it another try.

 

Yeah. That's a retained one, too, meaning it didn't start from the rim, it's all on the inside.

 

VAM-2BB maybe? If so, that's an R5, a rare variety.

 

@Paul M. thanks for the info about VAMs; I will indeed invest some time into learning more about them. Here's a close-up of the retained crack on my 1922.

 

Looks like I was wrong. This is a dead on match for VAM 2-DW, which, as I understand the nomenclature correctly, is a later die state of the VAM-2 "Vamily". It's listed at R6 (very rare), so, even rarer than VAM-2BB.

See you in a few weeks, once you've gotten all the way through the VAM list at VamWorld.

 

My first impression was low MS, 62-63. Your photos are decent, but I'm having trouble evaluating the luster from your photographs. As a former collector of Peace Dollars, I can tell you that luster factors into grade prominently. Both TPGs will give silent net grades to coins that have been over dipped.

 

pr69, first - I mostly agree with your grades. It's obviously subject to lighting and interpretation - and closer inspection of the coins - but you do seem to have a pretty good grasp. Unfortunately this means more competition for me when searching out the true gems!

You certainly do have much greater skill in photography. (Peanut gallery - shush!)

I have been collecting peace dollars for some time. I've completed my "circulated/lowball" set, I completed an ungraded AU/MS set, and last year I embarked on building a registry set with NGC.

You said the strike doesn't affect grade - but it does. I can tell you this from attempting 2 re-grades of a 1924-S that everyone (including an ex-PCGS grader himself) said should go 64+ to 65 on a good day. I may dare to break it out and send it in raw to see what comes of it. Meanwhile the obverse strike is spectacular, the reverse is not quite as robust. The reverse strike does not display stunning "pop" of the feathers consistently, and this is what I believe is holding it back, although the overall reverse strike is deep and clear.





The strike in particular from the SF mint is very weak, and so strong strikes are heavily coveted - even in circulated condition.

Philadelphia had the most consistency, Denver produced (in my opinion) the most stunning strikes, but not as many high grade (lots of bag marks and chaff).

The best date set to display the differences is 1926 where you can get high quality strikes from all 3 mints, and the population is low enough to pull together some averages. I recommend looking at a P/D/S set from PCGS and then from NGC. Understand what the graders look for, and what stands out. Look at a 64 and a 65 set. You will see the strike becomes the deciding factor - especially on the S mint marks.

I wish you luck in your search. Mine is almost over. I just recently picked up this 1928-P in MS64+ and I have consensus that the reason it does not go 65 is the strike. It has never been dipped or cleaned, it's the jewel of the collection.

I will be adding photos once the set is complete.

http://coins.www.collectors-society...etListing.aspx?PeopleSetID=174970&Ranking=ngc

 

@Brett_in_Sacto Wow, that's quite a registry set you have amassed! Very nice coins. Impressive.

Regarding strike, check this out:
http://www.pcgs.com/photograde/#/Peace/Grades

Do you think their MS-68 coin has a better strike than the MS-69 coin? I think so, but I'm focusing on the date and "Peace" which I'm not sure is proper.

Also, perhaps you or others can help me grade this new coin that I acquired. It's a 1923-S, and is a pretty nice coin other than the scratch through Liberty's crown. I am self-grading this as an MS-61. Thanks for any feedback.

 

Do you mean MS67 vs MS68? If so, yes, I think the 67 is better struck. Based on pictures alone, I vastly prefer it to the 68. Maybe in hand the 68 makes a better impression.

It's nicely struck, looks like there might be die polish lines at RTY obverse? Not sure what's going on with those spots behind the eagle and underneath ONE though. Toning or dings? That scratch through the crown wants to make me detail it, but, if you're going to grade it straight, I'd say 60, but I wouldn't argue with a 61.

 

@Paul M. yes, I meant MS67 vs. MS68; thanks for that clarification. You bring up a good point that the MS68 example could look better in hand; though based on photos alone I would strongly prefer to own the MS67 example and it seems to have a better strike.

I do not have much experience with die polish lines, but did some research, and unfortunately I can't tell if the lines are raised or recessed on my coin. But based on the pattern and the fact that they are only on the field, not continuing to the devices, it seems they are indeed due to die polish.

Regarding the two spots behind the eagle and underneath ONE, I really don't know what they are. They aren't dings; they disappear with certain lighting angles, and it seems they are small toning spots.