Sometimes a copy will have to suffice...

stevex6 · Dec 28, 2015

That's a very cool coin, Badger Mint (I love the elephant, below) ... awesome

I would not have known it was an electrotype

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Bing · Dec 28, 2015

Excellent BM. And welcome.

Paul M. · Dec 28, 2015

TIF said: ↑

Exam with naked eye and camera doesn't show the seam (or sprue scar) but I haven't examined it thoroughly. It certainly looks well-crafted.
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Interesting. If it didn't have the RR on the edge, would you say this replica would be fairly deceptive?

Paul M. · Dec 28, 2015

Badger Mint said: ↑

Very nice piece. i picked this one up at a recent CNG auction.
To answer some of the questions, one mold can make multiple electrotypes before another mold needs to be made. Also, molds can be made from electrotypes as the copy is as perfect as the mold it is made from, I have made a mold from the above coin and made copies from that mold. The filler metal was most likely lead as it is cheap, the trick would be to keep the two halves together while the lead was molten so it wouldn't leak out. I still haven't mastered that part. Molds in the early days of electrotyping were made from pressing a coin or medal into lead or using a low temp fuseable metal alloy. Later on it was found that using plaster, wax, or natural rubber was possible if the mold was coated with a conductive powder or metal foil. With proper care, the molds shouldn't degrade. According to the old books, using their primative batteries, it could take several days to make some electrotypes. Using a modern, controllable power supply, I can make an electrotype that is thick enough to take the tin filling (I don't use lead) in about 8 hours. If you find more out about Robert Ready, please post!

Joe Paonessa
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Great coin and info. Also nice price, if it's the one from the August 12 auction.

Here's a link to the real deal: https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=281955

TIF · Dec 29, 2015

Paul M. said: ↑

Interesting. If it didn't have the RR on the edge, would you say this replica would be fairly deceptive?
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Hmm. No, not really. Look at the side view image. The flan crack is filled and smooth. Plus, the weight is wrong.

Paul M. · Dec 29, 2015

TIF said: ↑

What metal was used to fill the electrotype "shell" prior to soldering the halves together? My replica weighs 16.64 gm. The host coin weighs 13.19 gm. Is the heavier weight due to added thickness or to a different metal? Of the possible filler metals, lead would seem the most likely but its atomic weight is almost twice that of silver so if it were used, the replica weight would be even heavier.
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Lead has a density of 11.36 g/cm^3. Silver has a density of 10.49 g/cm^3. Atomic weight isn't all there is to it.

My offhand guess would be that it's filled with lead and thicker than the host coin. If you did a specific gravity test, that would tell you for sure.

swamp yankee · Dec 29, 2015

TIF said: ↑

...and some are collectible in their own right.

View attachment 463688
KYRENAIKA, Kyrene
modern copy by electrotypist Robert Ready
host coin, c. 410-400 BCE, acquired by the British Museum in 1872
AR "tetradrachm", 27 mm, 16.64 gm
Obv: Bearded head of Zeus-Ammon, wearing tainia with uraeus-like ornament at forehead, facing slightly left within laurel wreath
Rev: silphium plant; K V P A N A (split between fields, retrograde K)
Edge: initials R R
Ref: BMC 77 (host coin); B.V. Head. A guide to the principal coins of the Greeks, from circ. 700 B.C. to A.D. 270. London. 1965 pl. 20, 61 (host coin); host coin BM accession number 1872,0709.361; B.V. Head. A Guide to the Select Greek and Roman Coins Exhibited in Electrotype, London. 1880. Period III C #44.

The host coin is one that would be virtually impossible to obtain. A copy is the only option. This electrotype itself has historical interest so I see it as a worthwhile acquisition.

In 1859 Robert Ready was hired by the British Museum to make copies of rare and noteworthy coins. Initially he replicated the coins by casting but then began using the relatively new technique of electrotyping. For a quick overview of that process, check out this animated video showing how an intricate silver vase was replicated by electrotyping.

The host coin for my Kyrene electrotype tetradrachm was acquired by the British Museum in 1872. The original coin, from the BM's website:

The mold for this electrotype was likely made between 1872 and 1880, since the electrotype version is cited in B.V. Head's A Guide to the Select Greek and Roman Coins Exhibited in Electrotype, London, 1880 (Period III C #44). The author notes this about the electrotyped coins chosen for this book:

"This series gives at the same time a view of the finest and most interesting Greek coins in the National Collection."

The replica has the maker's initials on the edge:

View attachment 463701

Ready trained his sons to continue the electrotyping and such replicas were continued into the first decade of the twentieth century.

At the time it was made, this electrotype could be purchased for 2s. 6d. each, which if I understand the strange British monetary system of the day, was 2.5 shillings or £0.125. After running the figures through Bank of England's inflation calculators, my purchase price this month was only ~1.85% more than 140 years of inflation. I calculated that to feel better about what I had to pay for it

This was my sole bid in the most recent CNG e-auction. Knowing that it was likely to be Clio'd, I changed my bidder name to a plea and bid an hour before closing in the hope that he would see it, laugh, and show mercy. Apparently it worked!

View attachment 463715
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Like this one repro or not!.....

Badger Mint · Jan 2, 2016

Here is a link to the one I bought. Far less expensive than the real thing. Also, the edge isn't marked and it takes a good glass to see the seam.
https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=290774

Hey, how do I search the BM site to find the host coin? I keep getting lost.

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