Found a raw 1802 Dollar in Collection I Bought. Genuine?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by planman2014, Dec 26, 2015.

  1. planman2014

    planman2014 Active Member

    When I mean 30 minutes ago it was technically 3 days ago but it was a large collection of almost entirely common Peace dollars. Also some nice Seated Liberty halves and a few Morgans (Including a pretty nice 91-cc). Collection was inherited from father. Son was a collector but by his own admission wanted the money more than the 500 or so coins. Can't blame anybody. Now about 30 minutes ago as I go through this large collection I opened a package of what I thought was another set of 1923 Peace and in a 2x2 holder I see this. How in the world me AND the son missed it is beyond me. We went through them in pretty good detail but in hindsight I think we got lazy and just inventoried rolls without actually going through them. Stupid on my part because with my luck there would be 40 cast counterfeits in there. I have attached some ok not great pictures. Nothing wrong in terms of diameter or weight and nothing glaring to me that says fake but as I have started doing: let the community take this journey with me. I have an old Bowers-Borckardt somewhere that I am pretty sure I have never, ever had to use. Ever.


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  3. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Mushy denticles on the obverse and significantly less wear on the reverse than the obverse. Details look more or less right to me, but I'm not an expert on these. If I had to lay odds, I'd say 75% chance of it being fake.

    I'm assuming you've checked the weight and diameter already?
     
  4. planman2014

    planman2014 Active Member

    Yes weight and diameter are correct but that does not mean all that much honestly. I mean it is a good sign but they make counterfeits at the right weight/diameter.

    I have a few VERY good fakes in my personal 'counterfeit collection.'
     
  5. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Agreed, lots of wear on the obverse but little to none on the reverse. Denticles look mushy too and I don't really look at those often as they are way out of my price range. That's suspicious enough for me to be cautious.
     
  6. planman2014

    planman2014 Active Member

    Well it is already mine and I did not even know I had 'bought it' so I don't have to be cautious anymore. Lol
     
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  7. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Haha, sorry, I meant be cautious about calling it genuine.
     
  8. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    And a side note, I would love to see some photos of the collection you purchased.
     
  9. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    I agree, diameter and weight can be 100% correct for a struck counterfeit. I'm still at 75% chance of it being fake because of the things I noted.
     
  10. 2 second look, 100% fake. The date is the simplest pick-up point.
     
  11. harris498

    harris498 Accumulator

    It just doesn't look right to me at all.
     
  12. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins

  13. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    There's only one single 1802 variety with a right foot on the T in LIBERTY, and a non-overdated 2. That's B-5. This coin is not B-5; the star touches the beak at the wrong spot, and the leaf points to the I in AMERICA at the wrong spot.

    Those are conclusive pickups (so conclusive I stopped with just them), and this coin cannot be real.
     
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  14. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

  15. Rassi

    Rassi #GoCubs #FlyTheW #WeAreGood

    Might it be a contemporary fake? That might make it a bit more interesting...
     
    swamp yankee and Paul M. like this.
  16. swamp yankee

    swamp yankee Well-Known Member

    Hope it turns out to be real for you,shows us all to be careful when getting a large bunch of "goodies" inspect them all!
     
  17. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    That looks like a Chinese fake to me, the reverse shows what I call "Beijing Mint Frost." The obverse hair details look very crude, like from a well used transfer die.
    My opinion fwiw
     
  18. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Well, it's already been conclusively proven that it can't be real, in addition to the plain physical features like "wear" mismatches (if this part is that worn, this part should show more wear than it does).

    I've the feeling it's a relatively recent Chinese production.
     
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