I want to send these two coins off to NGC: + 1776 8 Reales Mexico City Mint + 1895 1 Yen I will send the 8 Reales coin in unless you all think that it's a counterfeit. The rim has an alternating square and circle design. There are some rim damage, scratches, and it's probably been cleaned at least once sometime in the last 239 years. What would you grade it as? For the Japanese Yen, it looks like a BU coin but I see surface hairlines, some light spots (milk spots or tarnish spots), and some bag marks or similarly small marks. What would you grade it as? Any other issues? And sorry for the poor pics, I tried. Thanks in advance!
Your photos are OK but the fakers have gone way past the point where most experienced collectors can authenticate coins using them (unless there is a major mistake such as improper legends (Chinese crowns); incorrect designs (SupperDave caught a $T yesterday). With that said, IMO the $T looks OK even too good to be true; and the 8 R looks fishy. The design is too "soft." Good or bad IMO that one should get a details grade. There is a collector called SwamperBob on another forum that is VERY knowledgeable on these. I am new here and don't know the rule about giving other forums to search.
For the 8 Reales, I'm guessing a VF Details grade? I did a neodymium N52 magnet test on these and there's only a very slight resistance, which is consistent with how silver behaves. The 8 Reales coin weighs 26.87 grams. NGC states that it should be 27.0674 grams, which is 0.73% off (within error limits). The 1 Yen coin weighs 26.94 grams. NGC states that it should be 26.96 grams, so I think that this coin is pretty much spot on and authentic. I'm sure that the 8 Reales coins are counterfeited plenty of times, but the price for this coin raw was too good to pass up. So if the counterfeiters are that good, that has me a bit worried. I won't be doing any flinch-worthy tests like dropping it and hearing how it sounds, or one of those silver acid tests. So, my best bet is to ask you all. I'll send it off to NGC unless there's a serious / obvious issue that one of you addresses.
I was hoping it would only be hairlines but I guess it would be too good to be true. So, an MS-XX Cleaned grade?
You'll notice the slightest resistance when using a rare earth magnet on silver coins. I feel it on all of my encapsulated silver coins. It's not friction I'm noticing. The raw price was too good but I guess that's relative. I always look up past sales data prior to purchasing or bidding. The price was within the range of what it should go for, but the range was large and I ended up paying less than I expected (less than average). Which is still surprising to me, given that the 1776 date 8 Reales coin minted at Mexico City is among the most sought after of the 8 Reales coins (or so I've read and seen, given that these coins circulated in the American colonies during the year of Independence). I don't mind either way, though my preferences are usually different from others.
In what way? Pull, push, friction. Perhaps explain w/another word. I cannot apply "resistance" to coins unless: "The resistance of this coin's surface to my knife blade is surprising!"
I let the magnet slide down the capsule, where the capsule is at a steep incline. I'm using an N52 magnet measuring 10mm thick by 20mm in diameter.
What capsule? Where did you learn to do that to authenticate a coin? I guess the guys who put magnets to the obvious junk, "chocolate", across-the-room-fakes from China have really started something! Any decent (by TPGS standards) fake will not be attracted to a magnet. Please take the coin out of whatever it's in and see what effect the magnet has on it. Look, I don't mean to come down hard on you personally or the use of magnets for authentication but you should make it a goal to become much better than that. Try to take Authentication 101, or possibly kept reading things posted by several of the competent people on this site. It only took less than two weeks here for me to find out who can be "trusted" for solid info. What state do you live in? I may have some suggestions for you.
Most of my coins are in black ring air-tites or slabs. I use a rare earth magnet as one way to tell, since the (typically) copper balance is paramagnetic. It will draw a slight attraction, noticeable when using an N52 magnet. It's the fastest way to tell one aspect of the silver coin's authenticity - silver plating over ferrous or paramagnetic metals/alloys. I also weigh the coins. If it passes those first two tests, I search for high quality images of a known authentic coin and compare the two. Any suspicious areas I use a 30x-300x microscope to see what's going on. I also ask here on the forums to test my assumptions and findings, as well as to research details on the 'net. Sending it off to the TPGs would be the very last step, and I've never had to do that (!), but I will for these 2 coins. I'm in Chicagoland.
If you have a camera on it, a few 10X - 15X shots of the 8 Rls surface around the letters and the castles would be nice. From what I have read so far, the edge looks genuine; however there should be 2 "overlaps" opposite each other. Now the bad news. I have learned that deceptive counterfeits (to TPGS standards) are 98% of the time (don't want to say always - for wiggle room) of the proper weight and SG. I know for a fact (horse's mouth again) that by 1973 the boys at ANACS only used the weight of a coin for ID as even back then the fakers were improving their weights and alloys until a balance and specific gravity rig was virtually obsolete for authentication.
It's incredible how detailed some of the fakes I've seen are. They also include the usual wear with calculated damage to the coin. Here are some closeup pics of mine below (it's like a whole different world through the microscope!). I'm using the NGC auction data/pics as reference: https://www.ngccoin.com/auction-cen...217/auctions/1776mo-fm-mexico-8r-ms-ucid-4L7W. Rim Obverse Reverse
Now the thing looks genuine. One characteristic from the book I forgot to mention. The die makers used the same punches - letters, castles, etc. Often these designs carried over from year to year like the shape of the "S' on Lincoln cents. the blue color looks like "flaking" (ED) rather than toning. If so genuine w/details. The diagonal lines that cut the design mean something (sorry, can't remember at the moment if good or bad). Do you know if I can recommend a competing forum you can try (with better results perhaps) w/o getting in trouble
I think that it shows up as blue when light hits it but it appears black by eye. Perhaps it's tarnish with plenty of pitting and old cleaning wear mixed in. I'm not sure if it can be posted, but maybe if you PM me it'll be fine since that's not public.
