Is it really possible that only PCGS and NGC get it right?

Thanks, that's nice to know. I think ANA says 4-5X.

 

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Got a micrograph of one on a Canada Maple leaf

 

A line/lines on a coin that appear 'hairlike'? Very simple. Let's not over-complicate things.

 

What is all the different stuff? See two scratches.

 

You have a good eye for the details:

1. Special type of "Canadian Style" die polish in field.
2. Tiny scratch over mouth.
3. longish, horizontal hairline cheek.
4. Milk spot neck.
5. 95% of the marks on face are OPSI (original planchet surface imperfections) that were on the planchet and not completely struck out.
6. 1-3 v.tiny PMD hits.
7. small, dash-like, scratches on cheek horizontal to mouth.

Note: If we were to turn the coin in the light and take another photo, the coin should appear almost entirely different and many of 1-6 would disappear.

 

Thanks for the good information! That will help me in looking at other coins.

 

I have seen many PCGS and NGC graded Morgans that don't live up to ANA grading standards. I've never compared coins other than Morgans so I don't really know how other denominations hold up.

 

...from the mouth of a new member to our screen. That's exactly what those of us 60 - 70 year old fellows have been lamenting. As soon as we join the corroded coins in the ground the youngsters will have made their "evolving towards liberal" standards complete with no opposing opinions. Change can be good or bad; let's see what happens in the future. God Bless America!

 

At the coin shows, most tables I have talked have a dislike for modern coins and commemoratives. Most of the vendors seem in their 60+ age.

 

Depending on how old you are, those modern coins should catch on. Check out what some high-grade (virtually non-existent) coins bring even now. Lots of dealers have no time for collectors or anything they don't sell. Nevertheless, there are plenty of good ones who can fill your needs. One thing many collectors do is to specialize. Soon they know more than almost everyone, write books, form groups, raise the price and collectability of their coins and have a great time along the way. Look what the IKE Group has done is a short time (compared to Large Cents).

 

I believe this might reference the case you're thinking of. FTC v. Security Rare Coin & Bullion Corp, 1989.

 

Last show I was at, one of the dealers said the thing he was selling the most of that day was classic commems. Granted, he sold 3 or 4 of them to me, but still. Overall though, these coins are asleep... and I like it that way.

 

At my last show (beginning of Dec.) bullion was the hot item.

As for commemoratives, it is a great series that goes hot and cold. As you said, cold right now. I think the newer collectors are going after/more interested in the moderns at the moment. IMO a YOUNG collector won't go wrong purchasing the expensive, and very low mintage modern coins; forgetting about the rest. But that's not a collector and what's the fun of doing that until you "cash in" the profits years from now. At the moment many of the common gold issues are trading/selling around melt!

I like the old ones too. Much better artistry. Unfortunately, they got greedy and issued several types for years at different Mints. One of each makes a better looking collection that is not weighed down by BTW, Texas, etc. That's a type set of course. Before the TPGS, it was hard to find a frosty, white, original coin in this series. Practically every coin was cleaned. The most beautiful group I ever saw (except for toned coins) was a hoard of "blast white/CC dollar color" coins all slabbed at Leon's Silvertown table.

Interesting (?) story. A curator at the Smithsonian (deceased) who was forming a U.S. Type set gave me his rational: Who wants to look at/show off a collection of virtually identical coins (Morgan's was the coin he used) to a non-collector. After the first blush of interest.... On the other hand, wit a Type Set, folks are amazed that our country produced the 3c silver and that there actually was a 2c piece coin besides an opinion.

For just that reason and the fact that the collector may find a series he/she really likes as a type and specialize, I recommended to a lady on one forum that she start her husband on a type set. She went with Peace dollars a good choice that he could actually complete in high grades.

 

It is condEr as in Conder Token not condor as in the bird.

It may have helped your search.

And for the record, over the past 11 years, very few folks have ever really noticed the difference but when they do, the name makes perfect sense. (Unlike 19Lyds which makes absolutely no sense or cents.)

 

Thanks, I did not use his name while searching - only book title; however we should get "names" correct in replies as I misled Santinidollar too.

That means CondEr should be an expert on copper color/grade/rub on high points, etc. Perhaps he will post comments on what makes a copper item drop from the MS grade and how to spot wear for us new members over on the wear vs stacking thread. My ways of looking at it are possibly wrong.

 

"Hairlines" on proof coins are sometimes imparted to the planchet from the die. Meaning, it's the actual die that has the hairlines.

I found this out while examining some 1968-S Proof Kennedys I received back from a submission and was wondering what kept one PR67DCAM back from a PR68DCAM and what kept a PR68DCAM back from a PR69DCAM. I specifically noticed some "hairlines" through the date which really confused me since I'd just busted these out of the mint plastic. I thought that I'd been really careful but evidently not careful enough!

The next coin.........had the EXACT same hairlines in the EXACT same location.

I then looked at a third coin. Same Hairlines.

This led me to look at other imperfections which seem to plague silver proof coins. Namely those little fractures in the coins field which look like they radiate out from the center. I used to call them silver blast and first "noticed" them on some of the Silver State Quarters proof sets which I was considering submitting for grading.



Not the lines folks but the speckles.

At any rate, examining the above 3 Kennedy proofs also showed these little fractures in the exact same locations with the exact same shapes. It blew me away at how ignorant I was regarding the grading of proof coins. Namely in that, PCGS's definition for PR69 is "As Struck with miniscule imperfections, near full strike necessary" and PR70 is "As struck with Full Strike".

No where does it mention where the imperfections need to occur such as the coin or the die. The assumption is that the imperfections reside on the coin but I'm thinking that they could reside on the die as well with regard to a coins grade.

Some pit-chures:

PR67DCAM


PR68DCAM


PR69DCAM


Surface Fractures (Look for the Inverted Chevron shaped fracture between the S and O near the edge):

PR67DCAM


PR68DCAM


I have no doubt that the above imperfections, whether surface fracture or hairline, actually occurred on the die and was transferred to the coin.

Basically, a hairline is a hairline and its upto the grading company on whether or not it is acceptable with regard to grade. In other words, an "opinion" since I never really could figure out why the PR67DC didn't grade like the PR69DC or vice versa.

 

Thank you for a very good article of useful information.

 

So, for instance, a 70 could not have visible die polishing or flow lines.

 

Actually not. I am strictly a collector when it comes to my early copper and Conder collection and I strive for completeness not grade in my collections. So I don't pay too much attention to grade, values, or nitpickingly fine details that obscess the how to tell MS-68 from MS-69 type people. (Which is good because I can't afford to participate at those levels. I earn above the poverty level, but well below the national average and below the per capita income.)