Characteristics of cleaned coins

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by oldwormwood, Nov 22, 2015.

Page 6 of 8
  1. TubeRider

    TubeRider Active Member

    I'll pay in advance for the book!
    I have heard, and I think it was mentioned in this thread, that people can actually AT coins in slabs? I know the slabs are not air tight but how in the world do they pull that off and control the reaction? To break up the blast white monotony I like the occasional nicely toned coin (not clown colors) but how do I know that sulphur or some other chemical hasn't been introduced into the slab? The coin could look awesome at purchase but with the chemicals present in the slab it seems that the reaction will continue at an accelerated rate resulting in a black coin not too far down the road.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
    TubeRider, Dec 13, 2015
    #101 + Quote Reply
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  3. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    It's a good bet that if you send the coin to a smaller TPGS such as ICG or ANACS with a note that this coin is being talked about and we wish you to look at it and tell ALL OF US what you think about it + money for return postage you will be happy with the way you are treated.
     
    Insider, Dec 13, 2015
    #102 + Quote Reply
  4. TubeRider

    TubeRider Active Member

    With all the "in slab" AT, slabbed counterfeits etc, what are we as collectors to do? They are even counterfeiting CC GSA's now. The TPG companies have long ago stopped revealing to the public how to spot the fakes as it only give gives the perpetrator's the info they need to build a better slab. It seems that The Slab, which for decades has been touted as THE safest way to buy coins, will at some point be the most dangerous. Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
    TubeRider, Dec 13, 2015
    #103 + Quote Reply
  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I have no connection to MS-70; however, I highly recommend this product for all metals (have not tried porcelain coins or wooden nickels) and have used it successfully for over a decade.
     
    Insider, Dec 13, 2015
    #104 + Quote Reply
  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    PS Forgot to mention that MS-70 is milder than most chemical dips and is one of the products many use as a PRE-DIP before moving on to harsher products if the result is less than desired!
     
    Insider, Dec 13, 2015
    #105 + Quote Reply
  7. fish4uinmd

    fish4uinmd Well-Known Member

    Count on a 40 to 50% reduction in value!
     
    fish4uinmd, Dec 13, 2015
    #106 + Quote Reply
  8. fish4uinmd

    fish4uinmd Well-Known Member

    What I know about cleaned coins you could fit on the head of a pin...LOL! But, some coins have obvious marks, hair lines, scrub lines (call them what you want). I never bid on any coin that does not have a clear photo. Also, a Morgan that still has it's luster should, in most cases, display a cartwheel when it is rotated.
    http://coins.about.com/od/coinsglossary/g/cartwheel_coin.htm
     
    fish4uinmd, Dec 13, 2015
    #107 + Quote Reply
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Not true. There are many, many cases of coins that were toned black, and dipped to reveal very nice luster. There is even a somewhat famous story often related on the bourse floor about one in particular. It was a scarce date Morgan, toned black, already slabbed and graded 64 I believe it was. The most recent sale price of that coin was $26,000. The dealer who bought it talked to his buddies at the show to get their opinions on dipping it. Because dipping is always a crap shoot, they all told him no they'd never do it with that coin - too much to risk. But he went ahead and dipped it anyway, revealing very clean and lustrous surfaces. Then he sent in for grading. It got a 66. He then sold the coin for $126,000.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 13, 2015
    #108 + Quote Reply
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes, coins can be and have been toned, intentionally, in the slabs. As for control, it's just timing. And the gasses don't just stay there in the slab, they dissipate. And once they do no more toning than would occur with any other coin develops.

    As for the book, aint gonna happen. Too much damn work, besides got my hands full with the next 3 volumes of the one being worked on now as it is.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 13, 2015
    #109 + Quote Reply
    TubeRider likes this.
  11. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    What's that, if I may ask?
     
    Kentucky, Dec 13, 2015
    #110 + Quote Reply
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Simple answer, same one I gave when the first counterfeit slabs appeared some years ago. And same advice I have always given regarding the purchase of any coin - only buy from dealers you know and trust.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 13, 2015
    #111 + Quote Reply
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Volumes II, III, and IV of Gold Ducats of the Netherlands. Which by the way I am not the author. I do all of the editing and re-writing of the book. And even that is too much work ! Volume I took 4 years.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 13, 2015
    #112 + Quote Reply
    micbraun and Kentucky like this.
  14. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    DANG!
     
    Kentucky, Dec 13, 2015
    #113 + Quote Reply
  15. TubeRider

    TubeRider Active Member

    Interesting, I would have bet money that at least some residual would remain on the coin.
     
    TubeRider, Dec 13, 2015
    #114 + Quote Reply
  16. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The plastic itself is air permeable, and the edges aren't completely sealed either. So air routinely migrates in and out of the slabs.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 13, 2015
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  17. fish4uinmd

    fish4uinmd Well-Known Member

    Even the new NGC waterproof slabs??
     
    fish4uinmd, Dec 13, 2015
    #116 + Quote Reply
  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I wasn't aware that they had a new waterproof slab. But even so, while a container can be waterproof, that does not make it airtight. And even if the edges are completely sealed, which they would have to be, to be waterproof, the plastic itself is still air permeable. That means that air can go right through the face of the plastic. And yes, it actually does.
     
    GDJMSP, Dec 13, 2015
    #117 + Quote Reply
    ldhair likes this.
  19. fish4uinmd

    fish4uinmd Well-Known Member

    Maybe it was PCGS, can't find the video now, but while they were showing the improved features, they had the new slab in a fish bowl.
     
    fish4uinmd, Dec 13, 2015
    #118 + Quote Reply
  20. serafino

    serafino Well-Known Member

    Are the new, improved slabs made here in the USA, or do our "friends" in China make them ??
     
    serafino, Dec 13, 2015
    #119 + Quote Reply
  21. TubeRider

    TubeRider Active Member

    TubeRider, Dec 13, 2015
    #120 + Quote Reply
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