Chalkous, Ptolemy IX or X, or Apion?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by John Anthony, Dec 11, 2015.

  1. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    The brothers IX and X had a typical Game of Thrones thing going on, alternately ruling the Ptolemaic Empire between 110 and 81 BC. In the case of the chalkoi, the smallest ae denomination, sometimes it's clear when the coins belong to IX as he fashioned himself Soter, and the lettering reads ΣΩΤΗ.

    What are we to make of the varieties that are not so obvious? Usually they all have some abbreviation of ΠΤΟΛΕΜΑΙΟΥ ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ. On this coin, I read ΠΤ (in exergue, upside down), [ΟΛ]ΕΜ (on the left), and [ΒΑ]ΣΙΛ (on the right). But then there's one little letter left, which appears to be Λ, but could be A. If it's Λ, it could possibly abbreviate Larythos, signifying Ptolemy IX, but if it's A, could it be the Cyrenaean king Ptolemy Apion (c.150-96 BC), who also struck the same types?

    Sometimes I really wish the Ptolemiac monarchs would have been as egotistical as the Romans in clearly spelling out their names on the coinage. All the usual websites are no help on this one, but if I were to take a guess, I would say the last letter is Λ, making it Ptolemy IX. I'm going to ask for some help at FORVM, which the owner of Ptolemae frequents, but I thought I'd share it here as well. (It's a very nice example of these itsy-bitsy things at least.)

    chalkous 6.jpg

    Ptolemy Take Your Pick
    AE Chalkous, 13mm, 2.1g, Uncertain mint of Cyprus(?), or Alexandria, 145-88 BC.
    Obv.: Head of Zeus Ammon right.
    Rev.: ΠΤ-[ΟΛ]ΕΜ [ΟΛ]ΕΜ Λ(?); Headdress of Isis.
    Reference: cf. Svoronos 1845.
     
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  3. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    For those of you that are newcomers to ancient coins, the flans were cast and struck on sprues similar to this...

    flansimage002.jpg

    After the coins were struck, they were broken off the sprues and trimmed by some sort of abrasion. My specimen somehow escaped the finishing touches, making it an interesting example of ancient minting techniques.
     
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  4. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    That's so cool JA!!

    I'm struck by the similarity to those biblical types (Widows Mites?) as far as manufacture is concerned ('flans cast and struck on sprues') and assume it was later---or concurrently-- adopted there as well???
     
  5. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I don't know the origin of the technique - perhaps it's Ptolemaic, but the earliest "widow's mites" come with the Hasmonean dynasty, so they would have borrowed the idea from earlier minters.
     
  6. Markus1959

    Markus1959 Well-Known Member

  7. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    The technique was pioneered by the Chinese and I would not be surprised if it was imported to the West, though the Chinese series were exclusively cast and not struck on cast sprues.
     
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  8. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    This is a nice little video, but there was sooooo much more to it. I could watch an hour of this, going into great detail.
     
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  9. Cyrrhus

    Cyrrhus Well-Known Member

    Hello John.

    See these with the same technique, the last Parthian strucked coins from Vologassus IV Seleucia on the Tigris..or comes from Dura Eur.
    I am drinking beer, I have weekend !!


    IMG_0027.JPG IMG_0028.JPG
     
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  10. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    I'm not trying to do a pile on here but the below Ptolemy IX looks to me that it wasn't "finished" correctly or all the way.

    [​IMG]
    Ptolemy IX, BC 117-58
    AE, 3.21g, 16mm; 12h; Neopaphos mint, Cyprus
    Obv.: Head of Zeus Right
    Rev.: Zeus standing holding torch & staff, star above
    Ref.: Cox 128
     
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  11. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    i'm with cyrrhus...time to break out the beer!

    that's a cool little ptolemy JA, i would love to get a mini-ptolemy...something sub 20 mm is pretty high on the list.

    and that isn't the usual reverse, makes it cool. looks like the selecuid coins with the date below the headress.
     
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  12. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    very cool OP-coin ... another interesting specimen from the JA camp!!

    Pile-on thread ... sure, I'll pop-open another brew and toss this sweet PT-X onto the ol' pile ...


    Ptolemy X, AE24
    116-80 BC
    Zeus & Two Eagles on T-bolt

    zeusa.jpg zeusb.jpg
     
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