Characteristics of cleaned coins

Dipping coins is nothing new, it has been with us for well over a century. It was acceptable then and it is acceptable now, and there is a very good reason for that. You see, dipping coins has allowed us all to have the coins we have today, in the condition they are in today. That is because dipping has protected those coins from certain destruction.

Think of all the millions of older coins, beautiful older coins ! Hardly any at all of them would exist today in that condition had it not been for dipping. That is because toning, if left unchecked, will destroy coins with a certainty. And prior to recent years none of the storage methods that we use today to greatly slow down the effects of toning even existed.

And that is why the harsh cleaning of coins, as well as the dipping of coins, even came to be. Hundreds of years ago coin collectors realized what the ravages of toning was doing to their coins. So every so often they would pick up each of the coins in their collections and wipe them down with cloths and rags in an effort to wipe away the toning, as well as the dirt and grime that accumulated on the coins over time.

Eventually somebody discovered an easier way, and a way that did not result in their coins looking polished and covered with fine scratches and hairlines - dipping. They discovered that an easily obtainable chemical would remove the effects of toning and prevent their coins from turning an ugly dark brown, an even gunmetal grey, or even black. What's more they discovered that sometimes even those ugly black coins could be returned to their original beauty, assuming the coins were dipped correctly.

This is how and why dipping coins came to be acceptable, and why it will probably always be with us. At least until somebody can manage to come up with a storage method that will actually prevent the ravages of toning and preserve a coin in its present state.

Now today, yes some frown on the practice of dipping coins. But that is because they have never experienced what toning, if left unchecked, can and inevitably will do to coins. This is a certainty, it is not a question of if it will happen, only when. And they have forgotten the lessons of history, or never even been aware of them in the first place.

They have also forgotten, or been totally unaware, that those beautiful toned coins in their collections, were almost certainly dipped at some point long before they ever acquired them. And that the beautiful toning they see on them today would not even be there had those coins not been dipped earlier in the life of that coin. If they had not been dipped those beautiful coins would today be ugly and dark chunks of metal that would be shunned by collectors.

 

And that's kind of the point, right there. What I mean by that is that almost everybody applies different definitions even to common, everyday words. In numismatics, it's far, far worse.

For you Dave, you see the removing of metal, any metal, as damage. And in a purely technical sense you are absolutely correct. But what about the reality of the situation ?

You see, in many, many cases a coin has already been damaged, by your definition, by the toning on it. The toning literally consumes the metal, changes its physical state from one substance to an entirely different substance. And it is an undeniable fact that if that toning is left alone, it will continue to damage the coin even more.

However, if one were to dip that coin, the metal that is removed, isn't even metal anymore, but that different substance that is created by the toning. And the result is that the original underlying metal that has as of yet been unaltered or consumed by the toning is revealed. Thus exposing the coin's original beauty and at the same time eliminating the damaging substance.

That being the case, how can dipping a coin be thought of as being a bad thing ? And that's what I mean by the reality of the situation.

Now at the same time I will readily agree that there have been a great many coins dipped, that didn't need to be dipped. The toning on them had not advanced far enough to be harmful in other words. And while toning is inevitable and can never be stopped, with proper storage it can be slowed down to the point that no readily perceivable change will occur in one's lifetime. So if a coin is attractively toned then it best to just leave it alone and store it properly.

And this is what Dave is talking about when he mentions "knowing when" to dip a coin.

I also feel it is important make note of the fact that dipping a coin is always a crap shoot. You never, ever, know with any degree of certainty what the outcome will be. You might just as easily end up with a coin that was already ruined before you ever dipped it, the luster could have been totally destroyed by the toning. You might end up with a coin that has an old harsh cleaning revealed that was hiding under that toning. The coin might be covered with hairlines (not from a harsh cleaning, merely from previous rough handling). Or you might get lucky and reveal a gem hiding underneath.

So while dipping a coin may indeed be quite beneficial, it may also turn out to be a disaster. One would do well to keep that in mind.

 

It's pretty much like it is with all other things in life, you don't "find the time", you make the time

I've been doing this, making posts like these, for many years, since long before I was ever forced to retire. And I have always done that because of the importance it carries. For me, we all have a duty to do the important things, to make the time to be able to do them. Just like a lot of the rest of you, I used to work 70-80 hrs a week - every week, for years ! But I would still make the time to do what I do. And I don't do it for me, I've never done it for me. I do it for everybody else because the sharing of knowledge is important. Thus my signature line - which has never changed.

And please, realize that my signature line, knowledge - share it, is more than anything else a plea, for everybody, to share the knowledge they have

 

Nahhhh, the crowd was much bigger than that

 

In the post of mine that you quoted, the key phrase is - That is because toning, if left unchecked, will destroy coins with a certainty.

And I pretty much already answered your question in post #93 -

Toning is kind of like a living thing. As long as you feed it, give it what it needs, it will continue to grow. And the more food you give it the faster it grows. The things it primarily needs are air flow and moisture (in the form of humidity). But temperature changes can also accelerate it somewhat. So if you could take these things away, completely, toning would virtually stop.

But there is no such thing as an airtight coin holder - not one. The plastics they are made of are air permeable, air can pass right through the plastic itself in other words. But at a slow rate. And they are by their nature made of 2 halves, which do not seal completely, not even slabs. Even with the sonic sealing method they use there are still air gaps.

Air is necessary for toning to occur because without oxygen there can be no oxidation. Air also contains various contaminants, and these contaminants affect toning. Some speed it up, some can cause a given color of toning, others a different color yet. Air also contains humidity, the more humidity the faster the toning.

This is where proper storage comes in. A hard plastic coin holder is where you start. No they are not airtight, but they do slow down and greatly limit the amount of air that can get to your coins. But by itself that is not enough. So you place your coins in their holders inside another, larger, container and that can also be closed up. This further limits the air flow from getting to your coins. But more importantly it provides you with a contained space so the air inside can be treated if you will by using rechargeable desiccant packs to limit humidity inside that contained space. And you keep this container in an area of your home where it is dark, and the temperature remains fairly constant.

Do all of these things and toning will be slowed down so much that even over a period of time you will not readily notice any changes. Now above I mentioned your lifetime as a time period. But that is to put things into perspective if you will. Yes toning will occur, even with proper storage, over a long period of time. But it happens slowly, so slowly that if you look at your coins every so often you will not notice any changes. Now if you wait 30 years and don't look at them, and then look at them - yeah you'll probably see a change. But even then it's not going to be terribly drastic.

And yeah, the initial level of toning that you mentioned is also important. Toning occurs in stages, it is progressive. Rule of thumb, the darker it is the worse it is, and it has a terminal point. Once reached, the damage is already done and cannot be reversed. Typically, terminal toning starts at the outer edges of a coin and works its way inwards, but just like anything there are exceptions.

So if when you purchase a coin if it has very dark or even black toning around the outer edges then the damage may have already started. And it will continue, even with proper storage, but at a slower rate. And I say may have because sometimes even with black toning, if a coin is dipped and the black toning stripped away, underlying luster may be revealed. Other times the luster is already gone.

This is why many collectors will not purchase a coin with dark toning - they know what the end result is.

There is much I could write about this and go on and on, such as toning being dependent upon luster, or the difference in the way a circulated coin tones and the way an MS coin tones. And in other threads I have written about the different things at various times, but to put it all in one place would be a book. But ask a specific question and I'll try and give a specific answer.