Gold Coins. How much over melt?

I just bought these three coins today just under 1.5X melt value which I thought was very good considering age and condition. im wondering what others consider paying above melt for

1. damaged cleaned or poor coins.

2. Decent coins.

 

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From our friend centles?

 

I hope you purchased them as raw coins, as this seller is often mentioned in numismatic circles as a notorious self-slabber. That being said, they are nice looking coins and I don't believe you overpaid on any of them. I assume you will be sending them to PCGS or NGC? If the first one comes back problem free in the AU range or better you would have done quite well on this purchase, as the premium would pay off one of the other two coins + grading fee

 

yes im aware of this seller. Usually he over grades 3-5 grades. ive been fairly lucky with the ones I look at. I look the coin not his grade. I got a 1857/5 1/2D for 20$ MS63 it graded AU58. a 1926 silver shilling is pending but I think he graded it about on spot at AU50. not had any problems yet with fake or cleaned but ive seen some of his feedback.

thanks for the Help Numismat. I learned the hard way with many dealers there before. needless to say a lot of returns and a few headaches

 

We've all been there at one point or another, part of the process.

 

The French roosters are fairly common coins - even in BU they shouldn't go for more than 5% over spot. 1.5 times melt is insane.

 

Good luck finding one on the US ebay even with problems and wear at only 5% above melt. No one would even be selling them if those were the going prices because after fees they would get less than bullion value. Nice examples routinely go in the range that the OP paid.

 

yes im interested where else u can get a 10 Frank gold rooster in that shape under the 130$ i paid each and a 1800 20 franc in that shape under 250$

 

You can get them in the price range @scottishmoney mentioned over in some parts of Europe. Problem is that the trade restrictions on coins and bullion put a big dent in that. This is why I specifically mentioned US eBay regarding prices. Buying these coins cheaper and shipped internationally ends up equalizing the price anyhow.

5 years ago I used to be able to buy them locally for cash around melt, but that's just a dream now-a-days.

 

eBay price trends have infiltrated backwards into local markets. As I wrote in the post I was writing at the same time as you were writing yours @GDJMSP , I haven't been able to buy such coins locally near melt price and for cash in a good 5 years, because everyone looks to eBay as the ultimate price guide. This is something often preached on the forum - it's worth what people are paying for it - check eBay completed items.

 

As long as the hobby grows there will never be a shortage of fools, and also not a shortage of educated people willing to pay a bit more for their love of a nice looking piece of history. After all, paying more is relative. Pay more than a decade ago, or more than current prices? Not the same thing. Just because a certain premium was foolish a decade ago does not mean it is that now. Maybe those rolls and bags of coins got heavily melted because the mentality of the time was that they were worth just melt. Maybe they are equally common but more people desire them.
It's the increasingly smaller population of people with that old mentality that still sell these coins at melt that are being the fools now.
"Practical market value" decides who is the fool, the cheapo, or the guy who doesn't mind paying a fair price.
As for me, I'm the cheapo... and I love me a fool that finds their way to eBay.

Edited to add/remove a few lines.

 

AS for the OP's coins, I would say the earlier one he did well but the roosters are too much for my taste. I just bought a few roosters, angels, and Napolean III's locally for a little over melt. If you chase them they can cost you more, but just be a hoarder and patient like me and you will buy them for just above melt eventually.

 

May I ask what folks are meaning by "a little over melt" in percentage? Is that the elusive 5%? Or is that 7%? 10%? 15%?

I understand volume would drive the percentage downward, but for clarity, please assume 1 or 2 coins.

Thanks!

 

The highest posted buy prices for roosters that I can currently find is melt + $2 per coin. This is for XF-AU pieces.

 

I envy you guys that can still buy a small quantity of nice condition old gold at a nominal % or flat dollar amount beyond melt. People around here have caught on long ago.

 

You could buy "Napoleons" in banks in Paris for a small percentage over spot, which was kind of cool - but for me what was really cool was buying $20 Libs and Saints the same way. With premiums like what you quoted in the OP - I should just sell all my Napoleons and Dutch 10 Guilders - I have some really really nice ones because you could literally dig through stacks of them years ago to find one or some more that you wanted.

 

I paid about $7 per coin over melt sir for the 20 franc pieces.

 

I have a few of the original Napoleons, ie 1811 or whatever that I didn't pay a lot over melt for.