The Death of Tolerance

Excellent writeup, MM, I really enjoyed it.

 

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Wonderful writeup, MM!

 

@ValiantKnight We are in agreement.
"Hypatia was lost to history and Cyril became a saint"~ Carl Sagan
Truly sad
Nice coin 7C!
@swamp yankee No it doesn't change! As the great Homer wrote "We men are wretched things"!
Thanks for the kind words folks!

 

Wonderful write-up!!! You have a scarce talent expressing history in a crisp, enjoyable and informative prose!!

And, I LOVE that silver coin!!

My modest bronze of Theo II;

 

Thanks MZ! After I get my Engineering degree (fingers crossed ) I would like to go back and get a degree in history or Archaeology.

 

I have no doubt you will succeed in any endeavor you set your mind to---but good luck anyway!!

 

One last post before I head back to bed.

Theodosius II AR Miliarense. Thessalonica mint, 408-423 AD. D N THEODOSIVS P F AVG, pearl-diademed, draped & cuirassed bust right / GLORIA ROMANORVM, Theodosius standing facing, head left, holding spear & shield; star in left field, COM in ex. RIC X 392; RSC 20 var (mintmark), 4.25 grams.

 

Nice write-up M.M.

 

I hope you don't mind dlhill, but I lightened up your image. It's a really nice example.

 

awesome MM...write up and coin!

and nice photo editing bing!

i thought i had a coin of theo ii, but i don't! i have one with him on the reverse issued by honorius, but i've posted it several times recently..i'll give it a rest.

 

Thanks guys.
Thats a sharp Theo II, Dlhill!

 

I thought that if I looked hard enough I would find something.
Sorry, M.M. I was in error when I said that I did not have anything of Theodosius II.
How about this Arcadius RIC IX 151 Reverse with Arcadius, Honorius, and Theo II.
(Not a very good example but all I have.)

 

Hey, you have more bronzes with Theodosius II on them than I do!
Post a few Theodosius 1st's if you have time, he played a role in the mess that happened in Alexandria.

 

Well, here are a few of mine.

THEODOSIUS I RIC IX Antioch 68a

THEODOSIUS I RIC IX Antioch 67b70a

THEODOSIUS I RIC IX Cyzicus 21cG

THEODOSIUS I RIC IX Cyzicus 26b

 

Nice ones, TC!

 

Very interesting description of the event in Alexandria, it has caught my interest and I intend to read a bit deeper later. – However I think you should have leave out Gibbon as his works are outdated and are often in conflict with modern scholarly works about the Roman Empire.

When I had Roman subject at my university Edward Gibbon was not a part of the curriculum about Roman history. He was not because of the same reason why Galen’s works are not used for teaching future doctors: Their works are both flawed and outdated.



Here my Theodosius I, RIC 39b:




It is extremely small, 1,3 or 1,4 cm.

 

I appreciate the constructive criticism Herberto!
Fear not, I verified Gibbon's claims with my other sources, which is one reason why it took me 3 1/2 hours to make this post!
Cheers

 

"Hypatia of Alexandria"
By Alda-Randa

A very simple yet very emotional drawing.

 

What wonderful coins and discussion. (This keeps a non-numismatist like me coming back to cointalk to learn new aspects about history.) For me, putting a coin in its historical and social context makes an otherwise cold piece of metal come alive, bringing a tangible piece of history from a sometimes distant and forgotten past.

We can all agree that Hypatia’s murder was cruel and senseless. We can also agree the destruction of knowledge (a library, for example) is a great loss.

Popular classicist Bettany Hughes and celebrity scientist Carl Sagan have recounted the poignant and powerful tale of Hypatia’s murder along with the destruction of a great library in Serapeum.






Unfortunately, this is a great mythology, exploiting the elderly Hypatia’s tragic and needless death. Added for poignancy is the destruction of the mythical great library in the Serapeum.

Please read these two thoughtful and persuasive posts above events surrounding Hypatia’s life and death:

http://www.bede.org.uk/Library2.htm

"Socrates reports the murder of the philosopher Hypatia by a Christian mob even though he is clear that this is something he regrets occurred[79] so it is hard to see why he would omit the destruction of a library.

Hypatia of Alexandria, the female mathematician, has become a romantic heroine, a feminist icon and an archetypal victim of religious intolerance. Charles Kingsley ofThe Water Babies fame published his novel, Hypatia, in 1853 and it was this that started her modern cult. However the sources for her life are scanty to say the least. Socrates is embarrassed to have to report her murder[80], John of Nikiou revels in it[81] and the Suda[82] gives a few more details that need to be treated with the same caution as everything else in that Byzantine encyclopaedia. The Christian bishop Synesius of Cyrene was a pupil of hers and despite her paganism wrote her adoring letters asking for advice[83]. Modern myths about her include that she was a Librarian of the Great Library and that she worked at the Museum. Neither have any basis in fact or the sources and there is nothing to connect her to the Royal or Serapeum libraries at all." [Emphasis mine.]

http://www.firstthings.com/web-excl...istent-myths-of-hypatia-and-the-great-library

"The pagan historian Ammianus Marcellinus, describing the Serapeum not long before its demolition, had clearly spoken of its libraries as something no longer in existence. The truth of the matter is that the entire legend was the product of the imagination of Edward Gibbon, who bizarrely misread a single sentence from the Christian historian Orosius, and from it spun out a story that appears nowhere in the entire corpus of ancient historical sources."


I am not religious and I have no tolerance for religious zealotry. (I have met over the last few days several people who have been personally and painfully impacted by the recent tragic events in San Bernardino, CA that were most certainly motivated by religious zealotry. Very sad, indeed.)

That said, history should not be dependent on Hollywood’s or an eighteenth century Englishman’s (Edward Gibbon’s) rendition of events.

“Agora” was an entertaining (but mostly fictional) movie, that has, nevertheless, powerful universal lessons of tolerance and humility. “Agora” was not a documentary based on fact, however. One cannot always get an accurate picture of Ancient Rome or Ancient Alexandria from a 21st century movie depiction. (My next review for accuracy will be the move "300." )

My opinion about Hypatia has changed and evolved over the last decade. I continue to learn that history is never so neat and tidy.

Thank you, again, for the great coins and thought-provoking discussion. And thank you, Magnus Maximus, for reigniting my passion for the history surrounding Hypatia, a truly tragic figure in history who deserved a much better fate.


guy

 

Thanks for the input!
Socrates of Constantinople did not mention the destruction of the Library due to it being destroyed 4 1/2 centuries before he was born!
Thank good old Julius for that!
The Serapeum functioned primarily as a temple with the secondary function as a mini library.
"In AD 392 Epiphanius, too, wrote of the Septuagint. "And so the Scriptures, when they had been transferred to the Greek language, were placed in the first library, which was built in the Bruchion, as I have already said. And there arose in addition to this library a second up in the Serapeum, called its daughter" (On Weights and Measures, III.48c, XI.53c). Johannes Tzetzes, writing in the twelfth century AD, speaks of two libraries as well, one "inside the palace" (the Bruchion or royal quarter) and a smaller one "outside" (the Serapeum), which he says, contained 42,800 scrolls (Prolegomena on Comedy, XX)."


I threw Hypatia into the narrative to show how bad the religious intolerance had gotten in Alexandria as she was both admired by many Christians and Pagans alike. I did not mean to further the incorrect story of "science vs religion", if I came across as that please forgive me.

We are agreed on Agora though, the movie makes her to be a martyr for science, when in reality she was caught up in a war between the now "Saint" Cyril and Orestes.
Still a good movie though!
Also I used my other sources to verify Gibbons claims, I realize that he had a bone to pick with the Catholics.
I do plead guilty for the quote about Theophilus being a SOB though, Gibbon summed him up rather well!

Best wishes!!