Featured Let's talk about the Netherlands gold ducats

Hello everybody! From time to time one of you is showing on this forum a nice gold ducat of The Netherlands. These coins are worth a closer look on them. Therefore, I encourage all of ya to show some of them in this thread. They may be your acquisitions or some coins you just like and want to share.

What's more, if you got a question about the Dutch gold ducats from your collections or want to acquire one and you don't know if it's worth it, this is the place you should ask

 

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Let me be the first one

In the recent Schulman BV Auction 349, ended on November 21, 2015 a beautiful undated Zwolle ducat of the Hungarian type was available for bidding (Lot 285). Zwolle ducats of this type are known in two varieties: with RODOL and with RVDOL in the obverse legend. This is the second variety, known in two copies only.

The second known copy with RVDOL variety was sold on Jacques Schulman auction 263 on April 27, 1976 (Lot 737) for 2,196 Dutch guilders ($817), incl. Buyer’s Premium fee.

The recent sale of the Zwolle undated ducat of the Hungarian type was on Fritz Rudolf Kuenker Auction 105 on September 27, 2005. Coin was sold for 750€ ($903), incl. Buyer’s Premium fee. Previously the same specimen was auctioneed by HD Rauch in May 6, 2009, sold for 1,176 EUR (1,522 USD), incl. Buyer’s Premium fee. However, this coin was much more common variety, with RODOL in the legend.

The coin from the Schulman BV Auction 349 was sold for 1,560 EUR = $1,661, incl. Buyer’s Premium fee.

Zwolle ND ducat (Hungarian type) with RVDOL
(source: www.schulman.nl)​

You may see this coin here.

 

I don't own any Ducats (though I would love to, they are amazing things), but The Coin Show podcast Episode 9 features Doug Prather discussing the complex and fascinating history of ducats. This is a great discussion for beginners on this topic.

 

Not in 2009, but in May 6, 2005
Sorry.

 

The Coin Show podcast Episode 9 is indeed a nice introduction to the European gold ducats coinage. However it was posted in 2010 and Doug learned a bit more about ducats since this discussion Am I right, Doug?

 

Well then, is a return visit in order?

 

I would consider this idea, there is a lot of new facts to talk about

 

Well, I'd say it different. I know more about ducats than the average man on the planet, possibly more than the average coin dealer. I wrote a book about these coins and now I am ready to help you guys. So ask
- Darek

 

Let me show my numismatic ignorance. Were these ducats typically used for more foreign trade or were they also used for domestic transactions? If used domestically, what would be the purchasing power, let's say, around 1650?

Thank you,

Guy

 

Howdy Guy,
let's start with the question WHY The Netherlands started minting gold ducats. It is just because after the fall of Antwerp (1585) the center of the European trade moved to Amsterdam. And the States of Holland (a kind of representatives of the Holland province) were looking for the stable and well-recognized coin for large transactions.

What coins did they had in use already? A wide variety of silver coins, but their value was too low for easy use in large transactions. Speaking about large transaction I think about thousands of gold ducats. Gold coins were more handy for merchants, because they had a higher value and lower weight than silver coins. Because the Netherlands just became independent from Spain, they also wanted to mint their own coins, without Spanish rulers on them.

Of course before 1586, when the first Netherlands gold ducats were minted, there was a number of other gold ducats in Low Countries (florins mostly; in contrary to ducats, their weight was different under various issuing authorities!). What's more, gold ducats from the pre-provincial mints, like Batenburg, Hedel, 's-Heerensberg, etc. were mostly debased coins, with a lower fineness than said by low. It was because of the 80 Years War, what resulted with a lack of the government's supervision over all these mints. So, on October 4, 1586 with the Ordinance of Leicester the Netherlands established their own gold standard for a few centuries: 3.51gm and 0.986 fineness. This is what we know as a "gold ducat" standard today.

Gold ducats were in use as trade coins. For domestic payments they were using other coins, mostly silver ones. Of course it was not forbidden to pay in Low Countries with gold ducats, however in practice gold ducats in 16th and 17th centuries were in use mostly for payments in the Baltic Area, in particular for payment in Danzig (Gdańsk) in Poland. Later on they were exported in large numbers to Batavia (Indonesia today). The most of coins in Asia were melted down and used for minting their own currency or for making jewelry and gold stuff. I know about a large chair made for some Asian ruler from the Dutch gold ducats melted down.

Trade with Asia started in 1602, because in previous years Dutchmen had problems with supplies of spices and other goods from India. But this new country was also looking for a new opportunities for its merchants, and for independence from the Spanish fleet (Portugese and British fleets were not able to deal with India for a large scale at this time). In almost 200 years of the VOC trade activity in India the amount of 600 million Dutch guilders was transferred to Batavia! One ducat was worth almost 6 guilders, so you just need to do the math

Before you will get excited with these numbers, you have to know that in international payments a half of a million ducats a year is not so impressive. For instance, King Phillip II had an annual income of almost 3 million gold ducats. However, the consumption of money due to the activities of war was very large. For instance, Charles V spent 2.5 millions ducats in the battle for Metz in 1552-1553 and failed to take the city! Wanna more examples?

Sometimes it was a smaller number, like in the New Year of 1586, when the British captured Santo Domingo. After a month long occupation they sailed from the city with a prey in the amount of 25,000 ducats.

International loans in the in the 16th century were expressed in hundreds of thousands ducats. For example, when The Spanish King Philip II required money for the war with the French of Naples, he asked Queen Bona Sforza (wife of the Polish King, Sigismund the Old) for a loan. Queen Bona granted a loan to the Kingdom of Spain in the amount of 430,000 gold ducats.

You asked me also about the purchasing power of a ducat. Around 1650 the cost of the basic monthly cost of food for 1 person, expressed in gold ducats, was about 0.7 of a ducat. A barrel of salt cost in Low Countries one third of a ducat at this time. Teacher's salary was about 0.5-0.7 ducats monthly.

 

Thank you for the very informative answer.

Numismatics comes alive whenever a coin is put in its historical and social context. (That is why I spend so much of my time in the Ancients subforum.)

Thank you, again,

Guy

 

Just so I do not embarass myself when talking to a dealer or a collector, how is the word ducats pronounced? Dewcut, duckit, duck cats?

Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people who ask questions.

 

I usually hear it pronounced "duck-it," but perhaps this varies throughout the globe? I await a more educated answer.

 

It depends where you are talking about ducats In the US it is indeed the correct "duck-it" form, but when talking about ducats in The Netherlands it is usually "dew-cat". Got no idea why.

 

OK, let me wet your whistle in this subject. As you may read above on this site, gold ducats of The Netherlands were in use mostly for payments of the Dutch East India Company. It's enough to say what the VOC did during almost 200 years of its activity:
- was the first trading company worldwide
- was the first company issuing shares
- was the largest international company in the 17th and 18th century
- sent almost a million people from Europe to the East Indies

There is much more, but I am sure it's enough for you to believe that the VOC was one the most special companies in the world history, and the most significant company ever in international trade. Also because it was driven by gold ducats

 

This is a great ducat.

This is a ducat-like and round-shaped gold bar.

Please don't mix heaven and hell