A Couple of 'Nice' RR Bronzes

I was hoping to win two superior examples that I had bid on at Agora, but I was out-bid by a very insistent competitor....so I 'settled' on these two types; both of differing obverses and denominations than I already have and both struck by the last years of the 2nd Carthaginian War.

I have discovered (or actually 'rediscovered'--- one and the same thing at this point in my life LOL) that Roman Republic bronzes totaled 16 different denominations from about 280-126 BC, yet only five were not valued in fractions of an AS or a Roman pound of 12 ounces or 'unciae'.

Initially established as 12 uncia, the As was reduced to 10 by 270 BC, then to 5 by about 225 and by about the start of the Second Punic War (218 BC) to a ratio of 1.5 to 1 uncia. Rome was virtually bankrupt and the currency almost worthless.

The posted Triens and Quadrans, originally established about 280-275 BC, once had the respective values of 1/3 of an AS and/or 4 uncia; and 1/6 of an AS and/or 2 uncia. It's astounding that those ancient Romans persevered and ultimately became masters of the known world.

Since both of the coins were struck after 211 BC, they would have circulated just after the Battle of Cannae, the subsequent 'stalemate' and Hannibal's strategic retreat within southern Italy. By 203 BC Hannibal returned to Carthage to confront Scipio Africanus at Zama, only to be defeated by Scipio, and later exiled until his death circa 183-181 BC.

Anonymous AE Triens circa 211 BC; 23,3 mm, 4 .38 grams, Rome Mint
Helmeted head of Mercury right, four pellets above
ROMA, Prow of Galley with four pellets below
Crawford 56/4, Sydenham 143b (EX RBW Collection).




Anonymous Quadrans, Uncertain Mint; After 211 BC, 19.8 mm, 3.86 grams
Head of Hercules right, wearing lion-skin headdress, three pellets behind
ROMA, Prow of Galley, three pellets below
Crawford 56/5, Sydenham 143c (EX RBW Collection).



Please feel free to post any coin you wish and please feel free to correct any errors I may have made...

Hmmm, With all these 'Prows' I could start my own 'fleet'

 

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Those are great, especially the top coin.

My prow:

 

Mat, seeing your genuine Histaia reminds me of that fake one I purchased from Agora a while back OUCH!!

Yours is a real beauty!!!

 

Both great coins. I'm actually more impressed with the second, not because I like it better, but because it seems tougher to find the quadrantes with good detail - both sides of that coin look great, but I especially like the reverse.

I'll throw in an Eastern prow of roughly the same period...



Phoenicia, Arados
AE22, 6.88g, 12h; 130/29 BC.
Obv.: Turreted and draped bust of Tyche right.
Rev.: Poseidon on prow left; date in Phoenician script below.
Reference: Duryat 2391-2, HGC 10, 78.

 

Nice acquisitions Mikey. When I grow up I want one of these too (on the list)

Love that Jimmy Durante nose.

 

I like them both too, and almost bid on the first one myself. When I noticed your handle I decided to stand in line for the next one.

My ex RBW quadrans from a few auctions ago...

 

those are nice MZ, several nice ex. RBW coins have shown up here.

i posted mine from that collection not long ago, but here is another i haven't posted in a while....a semuncia with mercury and prow.

 

I always want to avoid bidding against anyone here at CT, but not everyone makes it easy to tell who they are-----my handles are all similar but others are completely different....

 

I'm not sure I look at the weight reductions the way you do since even the smallest asses were still divided into 12 unciae it is just that the uncia was smaller in proportion compared to what it once was. I have very few RR bronzes but I'll show a few.
First is a cast sextans with turtle/wheel type weighing 38.4g or a bit too light as most seem to be. There is a lot of variation on weights on these and I do not understand how to interpret the ones I have. I'm away from home now so working from memory on the weights.


My struck as weights the full 40g making it the equivalent of the sextans above but tariffed at six times as much.


My Semis is very close to half the turtle sextans. I have several nice catalogs of large collections of Roman aes which seem not to be bothered by these weight variations that confuse me greatly. Books act like these coins can be called 'sextantal' standard but the question I see unanswered is whether the heavier ones are earlier or if the quality control was not close.


Finally is my struck uncia which weighs 14g too light to be liberal but close to semilibral standard. I used to believe I understood more of this than I do now. The more I read, the less I feel comfortable with conclusions I see drawn.


I may start taking a scales with me to shows but I am less than sure what good that would do.

 

I'd prefer none of the auction houses to show bidder handles! That way I wouldn't have to know. I do try to stay away from forum friends' coins though.

Note to @Okidoki : one of these days I'm going to go up against you for a Hadrian. You can't have all of them, my friend .

 

The more I read of it before posting, the more my head began to swim a bit LOL

Hmmm, That means no Greek, RR, LRB or Byzantine for me..........HEY !!!!!

 

I use pretty much the same handle with little variance (or add "59"). I focus on RR, but go after the cool "schtuff" too... Not always the best quality, because I love them worn, handled, and transacted by ancient hands. I do not always go after the "mint state" issues...

 

yeah => it's Prow-time!!

 

LOVE 'em all Johnny!!!!!...

.....ER, I mean..... Steve?

 

I believe both of these you've posted belong to the various underweight series that Crawford missed. I'm just getting home from work and haven't taken the time to fully verify but they're likely from Group H1 or one of the similar groups described in this paper. https://www.academia.edu/15757344/A...f_Roberto_Russo_Witschonke_van_Alfen_eds_2013

 

phew ... I'm spent

 

And nice coins by the way. I don't have an example of the quadrans but here is my example of the Group H1 triens, one of my favorite coins in my Republic collection by far, ex. Fallani:

 

Hi Friend,
if you see mee you can mail me.
better for the both of us.

cheers,

Eric

 

Anonymous, As, Rome, 157/156 BC Janus I Galley I Roma
Reference.
BMC 217; Crawford 56/2.; Sydenham 143

Obv:
Laureate and bearded head of Janus above, I.

Rev: Prow of galley right; above, I. below, ROMA

29.87 gr
33 mm

 

Anonymous. Circa 215-212 BC. Æ Uncia
Anonymous (post-semilibral), Uncia,Roma, 215-212 BC, AE,

Reference.
Crawford 41/10; Sydenham 108.

Post Semi-Libral standard. Rome mint.

Obv. no legend

Helmeted head of Roma right ; behind, • (mark of value)

Rev. ROMA
Prow of galley right; • (mark of value) below.

5.71 gr
20 mm

Note. Andrew McCabe
They are always overstruck on captured Sicilian or Carthaginian coin, which explains the mashed up areas eg behind the head.