How much off-centering can you handle?

Like TIF I have my own personal views. The first thing I consider is if there is a more important side of the coin. The OP's coin, to me, is much more important for the reverse than a generic portrait of Venus on the obverse. So, we establish the important side, (if there is one), does not have centering issues. That is a huge plus. Next, the side that is off center, is the entire design still there? If not, like Doug said, is it missing the more important aspect of the design or less important?

In this light, I would say the OP coin is as offcenter as it could be and not materially affecting the coin. The important reverse is centered, and the important design elements are present on the obverse.

 

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Thanks Orfew!

 

I wouldnt mine any of these

 

GH, nice coin. I would like to have one that nice in my collection. I think the most important feature of this coin is the name CAESAR on the reverse.
This coin is a good example where the die count in Crawford (390 obv & 433 rev dies) is not a good indication of price in the market. That die count should indicate a fairly common coin. I see them often and they always have a price tag that makes me say not today.
I bought a coin that was a bit off center on the obverse, but I wanted the reverse for a coin club talk on identifying characters on Roman Republican coins.



Roman Republican AR denarius, 76 BC

C. Egnatius Cn.f. Cn.n. Maximus

Obv - bare-headed and winged bust of cupid; bow and quiver of arrows over shoulder; behind – MAXSVMVS (archaic for MAXIMVS)

Rev - Jupiter with staff and Libertas with outstreached hands in distyle temple; above Jupiter thunderbolt; above Libertas - pileus; in ex and around - C.EGNATIVS.CN.F.C.NN

19.7 mm, 3.90 g, 6 h

Crawford 391/2

Sydenham 788

RSC / Bab Egnatia 3

aVF, off center (grade on coin from dealer)

The Egnatio gens was of Samnite origin and moved to Rome after the Social War.

Cicero mentions a Cn. Engatius of somewhat disreputable character who was admitted to the Senate and was subsequently expelled.

you can see how I graded this one here:
http://rrdenarius.blogspot.com/

 

I'm glad I started this topic. I'm learning a lot

 

Me too! Thanks for the topic!

 

Am I missing something? Nice coin. Nice piece of history.


guy

 

Like everything, Greg, it depends. Centering is typically a big consideration overall and the centering of a coin can impact it's value significantly. You have a very nice Caesar there, but it probably has been deducted by about 20-30% for the centering (an estimate of course). Depending on the rarity, the importance of the design that missing, the overall visual appeal of the coin, etc all has to be weighed and it still comes down to individual taste and budget.

For me, centering is very important if I have a choice. Coins that aren't centered always nag on me a bit. I've got plenty of them so it's not like I don't buy them. I'll give you some examples and rational behind buying them.

This issue of Cassius is rarer than his corresponding Aureus. The centering annoys me some, but the coin will be very hard to upgrade due to it's rarity and condition. Really, the centering only cuts off the C in the legend and the bottom part of the portrait so no major loss but it does make the coin a bit "unbalanced" to my eye. If it were perfectly centered, it would probably be 50% more than I paid for it and one of the finest known.




This coin of L. Livineius Regulus is not particularly rare but it is hard to find perfect. I fell in love with the portrait but lost details on the bottom of the design on both sides. It's a beautiful coin in hand with a 45 year old pedigree and I got a bit of discount on it due to the centering. Also, having both sides uncentered like that keeps the coin "in balance" more to me. I'm nuts probably.



As I mentioned in the intro, it also depends a lot on the eye of the beholder. I recently bought the Pompey Magnus below and Phil Davis (who is the biggest stickler for centering around!!) told me that the reverse centering on this coin bothers him some and he's waiting for a better specimen. I was actually a bit surprised that he said that as I never even considered the reverse off center and I still don't because my eye doesn't see it that way. To me, it's a bit short of flan on the obverse and is missing a bit of the legend at the bottom which I wish weren't the case but it's an absolutely gorgeous coin overall and one of the prettiest in my collection. All I can say is thank goodness Phil felt that way because there was enough competition as it was and I didn't need him bidding on it too!


Last is this Brutus denarius. It's an absolutely stunning coin with a 40 year old pedigree (and an older one hiding I'm sure but I couldn't find it yet). The centering really isn't a problem as the design is all there, but the extra flan on the obverse side makes it look more off center than it really is to me. It's a common coin so I found one that is perfectly centered, even prettier, with a pedigree from a Merzbacher auction in 1909 so this coin is going to be sold in Triton XIX in January 2016.



So, hopefully this gives you another viewpoint on centering. There's lots of considerations and much will come down to your personal preference and budget.

 

Those four coins show some off centering I could very well manage with...

Q

 

I absolutely love this coin because it has fantastic style and a pretty decent nymph portrait ...

Oh, and it also has one of the sweetest Man-Bull styles I've ever seen, but sadly

=> the "Nike flying above" is a bit too much off-flan (ummm yah, although it still does have most of the good-parts!!)





... but I sure wish that it had "all" of Nike

 

Steve, fabulous MFB!

 

Thanks dawg => your coins rock, too!!

 

I really like this one. The type is currently victim of either a wave of fakes or barbarous copies depending on who you believe. This one has great, original and unquestionable style. I'm not in the market for one anyway but I have stopped dealing with one major dealer over their ignoring my question when the sold three die dupes in three recent sales.

We all have to decide whether we want a coin or the hope for better things to come. I collect coins by type not by grade so there is no question for me. I'm glad you gave this poor thing a home.[/QUOTE]

 

I agree => Carthago seems to totally rock, a lot!! (doug => there seems to be quite a few great coins from quite a few of the new-faces, eh?)

Wow, this place is quickly becoming the "in-spot" for ancient collectors!!

Even some of the fancy FORVM dudes are actually responding every now and then!!

=> it must be TIF's awesome personality?? ... or perhaps your mentor-awesomeness?

Or maybe it's Bing's Bububub-Bingness??

whatever it is => I'm amazingly happy to see so many new skilled faces!!

Uh-oh => gawd ... there is no room for me anymore!!

Is there a reality TV show with ex ancient coin guys trying to make a livin'?

Curious? => do you guys get Ice-Road Truckers?

 

This one didn't bother me because it's the plate coin of Houghton's Coins of the Seleucid Empire.

Laodike IV, wife and sister of both Seleucus IV and Antiochus IV. 175-164 BCE. Selucia in Pieria. Æ (15 mm, 3.33 g).
Obv: Veiled bust of Laodike IV.
Rev: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΝΤΙΟΧΟΥ, Elephant head l. Prow.
CSE 113; Forrer 183.

 

Oh my, Roman Collector => that's a sweet elephant!! (congrats)

Ummm, I have an example that fits somewhere in this thread ...

Antiochos VI Dionysos

 

Nice!!!

 

Hmmm? => you like that do ya ... ummm, how 'bout you meet this lil' sweetie ...

Antiochos VIII & Kleopatra Thea



... I feel like we're datin'

 

This should keep us from getting bored looking at our cherished garbage. I still maintain that any success of ancient coin discussion on CT is due to Steve getting kicked out of that other site. I doubt we would have made the switch otherwise. CT is not and should not be a Forvm clone. Some people who frequent one will also do well on the other while some are obviously cut for just one. I certainly ask different questions on each site (and do not always get answers on Forvm). Here many threads end up so far off topic that I'm sure we lose some readers and thrill others. There is room.

 

Room-on, coin-brothers!!

well put doug ... and thanks