1757 Treaty of Easton Indian Peace Medal w/no fire or pipe, THOUGHTS???

Coinrealm you can take the same advice I gave Numismat send a photo to John Kraljevich jk@jkamericana.com. He will let you know what it is.

 

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Sure, what was produced by Austria-Hungary during this period was pretty impressive, but even those pieces don't remotely look like this.The context of where the medal was made (ie colonial Philadelphia), the popular style of lettering and images, and the tools/skills involved are everything. Understanding this is essential to making the right call; the burden of proof is upon the person claiming this piece is a genuine period medal. The Coinquest article above lays out the evidence pretty clearly. It's simply that the details (or lack thereof) speak for themselves in this case.

 

It is unfortunate that the putative fake has such a bad picture.

 

Those pictures were of an example i found on the net. I hadn't had a chance to take good pics of mine yet when I posted those. Here are pictures of mine

 

Fool....................-................................Money
Wokka wokka

 

I'm just curious...do you think yours was made in 1757?

 

Hope you do send the pictures to John K. The original picture, I was very doubtful of, but the recent pictures need to be seen by a professional. Keep in mind it could still be a reproduction.

 

Still looks like a modern piece to me. You say that nobody has produced any evidence that it is indeed modern, but I don't see any evidence that it is genuine coming from you. Your images clearly show a modern piece. I would suggest that you return it as quickly as possible.

 

I am of two minds about this medal. First the patina in the recent photos, show age. The lack of the pipe etc. could indicate a reproduction that has been artificially aged, or why would someone reproduce a medal to fool a buyer and not place in the pipe. The only way to resolve this is to talk with an expert.

 

No, I've posted several times that I know it is not original 1757, just very interesting and it may have something to do with trials of restrikes by Barber around 1880 or it could be an example of dies that were actually made in England of this medal.

 

No way I'm taking it back!!! Copy, re strike, trial, fantasy, British design...whatever. This medal presents better than the original minus the $30,000. If I could buy the two other examples I found I would but they are long gone...

 

When Barber re cut the dies around 1880 he left much to be desired. Compare these to his. Who ever engraved this piece spent alot of time and effort.

 

I am inviting anyone and everyone to upload pics of "copies" or "fakes" of this medal for comparison...there are not as many repros as one might think. Re cut dies by Barber in Bronze, silver and pewter do not count nor do lead casts of the original coin...

 

Coinrealm, the only person you need to please is yourself. It is interesting you think this medal is a reproduction made in 1880. That would resolve my general feeling about this medal. To me it does not look modern but it could easily be 1880. Looks as if someone has wiped it with a cloth several times, and the patina does not look modern. The change in design could be from that time. Many old medals were reproduced at that time to make rare medals more available.

 

Send me a PM, I have plenty of counterfeit California golds and other "restrikes" to unload.

 

May I ask if the general design of the lettering concerns you? This isn't an area familiar to me, so it's an honest question. I could not help but notice the similarities to what is often seen on fairly crude Chinese counterfeit coins.

 

First most medals including this one are not likely to be counterfeited because they are not well known and/or else not many would be sold.. Second medals coming from early US history sometimes are crude. This one is likely a reproduction of the earlier medal so imitating the crudeness could be expected. Tonight read that no more than twelve of the original medals survive. BTW one of these original medals was sold for around $100,000.

 

It was more the certain style, which I find both familiar and crude, than the crudeness itself (if that makes any sense?). Perhaps if I had an example it would help, but beyond the earlier-mentioned similarly, it didn't strike me as showing the level of skill I, as a novice in this area, would expect. Regardless, I do appreciate the education.

 

The change of design details seems intentional rather than accidental, this is something seen with modern pieces (1950's to present). The purpose is to make a novelty item without trying to fool people. Some people that make such items actually do have a conscience

 

Hello again. Thanks for all the helpful information. When I purchased this medal I knew it was probably just a more modern copy but it was very intriguing because of the different variety of devices. The only reason I stumbled across this medal was because I found a lead copy of Barbers version. I didn't even know I had it until I found it going through some random stuff I purchased over the last couple years, any way I quickly debunked it as a poor lead copy courtesy of an article on coin quest with great pictures of new and old side by side (note: the article seems to have some incorrect info about the size, weights and history, but great comparison pics!) Once I was equipped with the information of the real medals versus the old ones, and saw for myself what people were saying and that there was much confusion over real vs. fake, I started searching for medals for sale and quickly purchased two more(besides the one missing the pipe and fire) One I know is a copper or bronze modern but was in good shape so i grabbed it for reference purposes, and one I was really excited about that was cast or struck from the original dies. The latter of the two arrived this morning and it was everything I hoped for and more...I had to do some digging to find this one...with that being said I will send pics and measurements of said coin this evening. ANS is listing this one as a "lead cast" original dies with no hole and that it is "most likely a pattern coin" they have at least one example in their cabinet and an article on coin quest says pewter restrikes late 1700's early 1800's about $20,000, I don't know where they came up with this price but it's a good start. Pics and info coming soon...thanks again!