1909-S V.D.B. Real/Fake??

My Brother passed away a few years ago and one of the coins he had in his accumulation was this 1909-S V.D.B. Cent.

I thought I would take a few pics and see what you all have to say...I already have a funny feeling what the verdict will be but what the heck.

I'm embarrassed to even post these pics on this forum after seeing all the absolutely beautiful Coin photo's the last few days.

 

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Usually it's the S that is added which from the tone of your post I think you already know this. But I once heard a story from a coin dealer, that he got ripped off from a stranger walking into his coin shop, then buying a 1909-S VDB from him, unknowingly with an added VDB. It was actually a genuine 1909-S coin.

That's how clever some con artists became, to risk taking an expensive coin such as a 1909-S and turning it into a more expensive clever fake. The coin dealer told me that he only focused looking at the S for authenticity while basically ignoring the VDB on the reverse.

 

I remember my brother talking to me on the phone about buying this coin at a coin shop in Michigan years ago.
He bought it raw..
My first "ugh" feeling on first seeing this coin was the little tail on the S and, as hard as I look I cannot see a dot between the D and B.

The only reason I even knew that much was from seeing post's like this on these forums over the years.

 

No expert, but I see no problem with the coin being a fake.
But there looks like a fingerprint on the obverse.

 

here's the diagnostics, check against yours...

 

I've never owned a blacklight but I've been thinking about getting one. Would a blacklight be able to show anything on this if the S was added? Or would a scammer just add the S, dip/clean the coin, retone it, so perhaps no blacklight could pickup any differences?

 

Well, the mint mark is in the Die #1 lateral position, in the #4 vertical position, and the serifs are not parallel. If these images accurately depict those features, there's no need to look at the reverse to know it's not authentic, unfortunately.

 

Compare the shape of the S to a genuine example. I think you'll see a big difference.

Plus the location is wrong, as SuperDave mentioned.

Looks like an added mintmark.

 

Not to add insult to injury, but I don't see any disputing this one. Hopefully you're not buried in it.

 

I think it is a real 1909 VDB that some one has added an "S" to.

 

No insult at all. Looking for honest answers.
He paid top money for it unfortunately.

 

That's too bad

For anyone out there looking to buy key date coins: either make damn sure you know what you are doing, or stick to certified coins. This is a prime example of why. While the 1909-S VDB is not a rare coin at all, there are probably just as many fakes or altered pieces out there as there are genuine ones (and this goes for all key dates - not just this one).

 

Again, and I could be totally wrong on this, but it might be interesting to shine a blacklight on the coin, to see if the S stands out from the rest of the coin as being added.

I mean what if a con artist knew those "diagnostics", and cleverly added the S in exactly the same way. What do you do then?

I wonder if PCGS and others do something such as this other than just a human eye examination on a commonly faked coin? Perhaps there are sophisticated computer scanners which would analyze the information mentioned in a much superior way to a blacklight?

 

An added mint mark will show a seam. It's trivial these days to bring enough photographic magnification to bear to sharply image it.

 

Here's the "S" and "V.D.B" on my 1909-S VDB
Sorry mine is only a VF-Details

 

Is that a real picture? I must say I like how HUGE and in detailed it is!

 

Maybe it's only the imagery, but neither the mint mark (serifs should be parallel) or the B of VDB (center crossbar should be tilted) look correct for the issue. Which Mint Mark Position is it?

 

Yes it's real I use a Dino-Lite AM311S and there is an icon for tool and I used the magnifier. It's pretty cool and my new fun thing when I do some photos

 

I have NO ideal what MM position it is, all I know I've had it a long time.
I sent it to PCGS and got the VF-Details