I mean "counterfeit". So, I have inherited a pretty large coin collection. Circulated stuff, not spectacular coins, but a large number of coins of moderate value, enough value apparently, to encourage forgeries. I discovered this after a couple of the large cents in a group of coins I sent to a TPG came back counterfeit. I imagine there are a few more in the collection. They are all raw coins. If the original collector was fooled twice, he was probably fooled some more. For a lot of these coins, I have purchase records. For others, I have no records at all. I have two questions to submit to your thoughts: 1) For coins that come back counterfeit and which I can trace to a dealer (receipts), do you think I have a legit claim if they were purchased by my cousin 10, 15, or 20 years ago? 2) For coins that I cannot trace. What should I do with them? It seems wasteful to just chuck them in the recycling but I don't want my counterfeit to be purchased by a crook who then sells it to some unwitting collector as genuine. Some possibilities occur to me: A) Place on ebay and sell, labeled as likely counterfeit. (Danger: Buyer is a crook.) B) Deface the coin ("CF" or something) and sell on ebay. Probably won't get much money, but somebody might want them and the likelihood of somebody getting screwed goes way down. C) Throw in recycling. D) Other: __________________ I hate the "coin mausoleums", but this experience tells me the TPGs are a necessary evil. Thanks for you thoughts!
You might want to keep them for personal references, but specify in the event of your demise that they be destroyed. Chris
If they were mine, I would counterstamp the counterfeits with COPY and keep them as educational pieces and to say I have a black cabinet collection. As far as attempting to contact the seller, it would depend on how much my relative spent - I would contact the seller and see what their policy is on counterfeits. It's nothing I would personally peruse very much.
I would caution, however, to only counterstamp coins you KNOW are fakes. I have seen real coins condemned because they were found with fakes. Each coin has to be proven by itself, lest you destroy valuable coins accidentally. Having proven they are fakes, yes, a dealer should accept returns. However, most require they are still in their packaging unless a good photo is stored somewhere, so you most likely will be out of luck there. If not, get a stamp made and stamp fakes so they cannot infect the hobby again.
Yes you must be certain they're fake before stamping! You can always ask the forum here for an opinion and all it will cost you is decent photos, an accurate weight, and possibly diameter.
Agreed! Just keep them in your collection and write counterfeit on the case. No need to do anything extreme
In addition, some coin museum somewhere would probably like to have them, and would mark them appropriately; then everyone benefits from the situation. As far as getting refunds or rebates, I think you can forget that right now, this very minute. Zero chances, and a monumental waste of time and energy.
With all due respect, I disagree with most of the comments so far. If these are contemporary (to the time they circulated) counterfeits, they have value as such and should be preserved as numismatic history. Also, the TPG companies are not perfect, and they do make mistakes on occasion. There are lots of examples where they have made mistakes, and some take years to become recognized. I am curious as to how multiple dealers made so many bad calls back when these were purchased. I wonder if your cousin was outright scammed, in which case the dealers won’t even consider a refund. If these were bought recently I would say they might be Chinese counterfeits and they might have some small value as collectables, but since they are so much older they are likely very old fakes and are worth collecting in their own right. It is not common for so many fakes to pop up in a collection, though, so the whole thing is very odd. But, I suggest you make the best of it and do not deface any historical numismatic specimens. Also, I would not worry about what someone might do with them down the road as long as you are honest when you sell them. Someone with bad intent might use them to defraud, but someone with good intent will help prevent fraud from occurring by studying and educating about forgeries. (When you sell a used car, the person who buys it might drive it to church or they might drive it to a bank robbery – there is no way to know and it is not your responsibility).
Could any of them be contemporary copies? If so, they may have value. Some folks collect these. It's probably going to be tough to get the dealers help after all these years. Not being the original buyer could be a problem. Could also be tough to show that it is the same coin even with the paperwork. I don't think you can sell fakes on Ebay any longer. If someone reports the auction, they may kill the listing. I would just store the fakes with a note and pass them down in the family. You might try finding a dealer you trust. Folks here might be able to help find someone in your area. That might help you pick out the fakes. If you can post good images, folks here could help you find the fakes. Just some thoughts. Good luck.
Thank you to everyone for the comments. I'll have to peruse the receipts again, but I think the two so far were both purchased more than 15 years ago, possibly 25. They are 1799 and 1804 large cents. The former is pretty high in apparent grade, the latter more rough looking. I've got the dealer flip from one, and maybe both. Receipt for one, and maybe both. My cousin was not a fool but he was a gentle and scrupulously honest soul who would have considered it wrong to be distrustful of anyone, unless he had evidence on which to base his suspicions. It may take a couple days, but I will post pics here soon. Or would it possibly be worth sending them to another TPG? Although I hate the cost.
If you submitted to a top tier TPG already I would not spend more just yet. Ask around, get some opinions, etc. just like you are doing. Back in the bad old days before TPGs you were on your own when it came to potential fakes. It happened to a lot of people I am sure. IF the dealers were reputable, then the coins fooled even them. If they the fakes are that good and they are somewhat old, they have definite value to collectors of forgeries.....
Put them in a 2 x 2 holder, mark them copy or counterfeit and keep them as a collectible item. 20 years from now, you'll be glad you did.
After 25 years? No dealer is going to 'make good'... unless they were slabbed or heat sealed in a flip with the dealer's imprint, there is no wsy to tell they are the same coin. The nicer dealer will politely tell you it has been too long - and deep down they will believe that the odds are you sold the real coins (if you ever had them), bought cheap fakes and are using some old invoices you found to run a scam.
