Premium for old holders ect??

I have an affinity for pre-2003 NGC holders.

 

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Those are what is commonly referred to as "fatty" holders?

 

The "No line fatties" are pre 1995. without checking I don't know if the "fattie" slab with squared off edges ended with NGC 6 (95 to 97) or NGC 7 (97 - 2001). I know the NGC 7 slab is not a "fattie" slab (edges of the slab are beveled).

 

Check out that 1900 for vam double olive

 

Thank you for the reminder. Unfortunately there's only one of those little buggers.

 

Still a nice pick up

 

I like the old holders, PCGS Rattlers and ANACS small white holders do tone the Morgan rims nicely.
I do agree that many were picked over and cracked out and regraded but I think that there are too many old slabs out there and old coin collections are still comming out of the SDB's and drawers. I like the out of business holders also, as there were many different companys that have come and gone.

 

Hallmark grading company slab. Newest pickup. Any thoughts? Seriously debating cracking this little lady out to re-grade. I'm a fan of old holders, however, is it possible that this holder could deter some people? From my research, I've read that this is the Hallmark that is associated with Q David Bowers, not the PCI over grading that purchased the "Hallmark" brand.

 

This immediately preceded the good PCI, and probably dates to the late 1980s. The coin is very attractive and would probably upgrade to at least 64. Thing is, there are a bazillion MS64 1903-O Morgans out there and there's no price spread from 63 to 64, and not much from 63 to 65. In a 64 holder, this would just be one of the flock (although a really nice one, based on the pictures). I would try to sell this for 65 money in the holder and then buy a nice 65 already graded.

 

Conder's book says 1987-1991.

PCI bought the assets at the bankruptcy sale.

The oldest PCI slabs ( where the reverse has the two bottom codes like the hallmark slab shown here does) still have a halfway decent rep.

 

WOW, that's fantastic... what a find!

 

Basically with an old holder, it can signify an undipped coin. If the coin was dipped in an old holder, and the darkening chemical residue over the years makes it look too bad, then the coin is removed, dipped, and reholdered with a new slab. So, I try to buy coins with old holders whenever I can because I prefer undipped coins.

There is no question if a bright shiny coin from say 100 years ago is in a new holder, it has recently been dipped.

 

With the 1881-O, it was stored in a Whitman folder for a number of years and then slabbed. The toning from the back of the coin is from being stored against the paper in the folder, while the obverse was in plain view. I really like this type of coin meaning it hasn't been dipped.

In my view, those coins are well worth a premium price.

 

Something to keep in mind about "undipped" silver coins is that if it is "a bright shiny coin from say 100 years ago" then (other than Morgan dollars--and to a certain extent even them) in an old holder then there is very little question that it has been dipped as well. Until 40 years or so ago a coin was basically unsalable until it had been freshly dipped. It was a standard practice for dealers to do this as customer service while the buyer was standing there at the counter.

The best one can say about older holders is that the bright shiny coin has not been dipped lately and that the dip was properly done.

 

The closing of Hallmark was not due to a bankruptcy. The sale of PCI to what became DGS was a bankruptcy sale. Hallmark closed for two reasons, One they simply decided to get out of the business and concentrate on other endeavors, and two was a security problem. They discovered an employee was doing some after hours grading and slabbing of his own with company equipment.

 

"until it had been freshly dipped. It was a standard practice for dealers to do this as customer service while the buyer was standing there at the counter."

Sort of like when buying ice cream at the soda fountain.

 

Thank you Doug for the continued guidance on our great hobby.

"Basically with an old holder, it can signify an undipped coin."

I should have stated this better to mean when a coin is in an old holder, the fact that many years have passed since it was slabbed, means there can at least be an indication as to whether it was dipped or not.

I've still got a bit to learn on this, but copper is easier to ascertain in this regard. I've seen and handled so many copper coins over the years, I can just tell if the toning is original or dipped. For example the old green holders are around 15 years old now. I can basically tell the difference between say a 50 year old never dipped copper coin versus a 15 year old dipped and slabbed copper coin, having the same say 64 grade and approximately the same toning characteristics. It's not easy on website pics, but in hand it's really not that difficult, but of course coin doctors will always try their best to fool us.

Silver is tougher to tell in this regard, but I'm trying my best to get a visual feel for it, based on handling many silver coins over the years as well.

Thanks again for the help!

 

Hi Doug - a few things...first to clarify a point of mine which leads directly into a point you made that I will comment on.

My point originally worded: "For example the old green holders are around 15 years old now. I can basically tell the difference between say a 50 year old never dipped copper coin versus a 15 year old dipped and slabbed copper coin, having the same say 64 grade and approximately the same toning characteristics."

My point reworded: For example the old green holders are around 15 years old now. I can basically tell the difference between say a 1965 minted, 50 year old, never dipped copper coin versus a 1965 minted, 15 year old dipped and slabbed copper coin, having the same say 64 grade and approximately the same toning characteristics.

Your point: "Now can original skin be definitively identified or recognized ? No it cannot, and the reason it cannot is because there is no difference between the toning that occurs at the beginning of a coins life, and toning that occurs 50 or 100 years later."

I hear ya, and I'm be thinking about your point as your posts are highly informative and knowledgeable, but I'm not yet convinced of your point on this, alluding to some of the points in my post, especially when it comes to copper.

"This is why, among what I shall call "advanced collectors" many of them highly prize the coins with what they call original skin."

I'll place myself with your term of "advanced collectors" in your sentence, although I will probably never place myself in a category of "advanced knowledge" when it comes to coin collecting. I still have much to learn, and I enjoy the learning process. I just don't want the learning process to be ultra expensive as per the old saying, "Experience is a dear school" - in my case meaning the need to obtain as much information as possible in order to avoid as many bad coin purchases as possible.